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Post by dabigfella on Sept 17, 2016 19:41:58 GMT
I didn't go to the match today but what I heard from the commentary and what I saw against Swindon I think Appleton may have to rethink his tactics. When he first came to the club he wanted to play 4-2-3-1 come what may and it took a hell of a long time for him to realise that he didn't have the players to make it work. He has brought in some very good players and has once again reverted to the 4-2-3-1 formation. There is no doubt that the 4 , 2 and 3 parts of the formation are working well. It's the lone forward that simply isn't working. Hemming, Thomas and Taylor are all good players in their own way, but they simply don't have the necessary skills to play the lone forward role. It is a specialist role and not too many players can do it. I will probably be corrected by someone who went today, but from the commentary it seemed that the lack of someone to hold the ball long enough for the midfield to get up field meant that when ever we got the ball free and up field it came straight back. I had hoped that Taylor might be the answer, but it sounded if I was wrong. Maybe Maguire might fit the role (if you ignore his lack of aerial ability). In the mean time we either have to accept 0-0 draws or rely on dubious penalties or rather fortunate goals to succeed. (That's not a criticism of the Swindon result by the way. We were lucky with the goals, but we made our own luck by the way were outplayed them).
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Post by foley on Sept 17, 2016 19:50:08 GMT
I am not sure the way forward but would say that today we were far better than at Fleetwood and Sheffield. Yes the problem was in the final third and decision making. Had that been better from Johnson, Maguire, Sercombe and others we could well have won today.
Maybe give it a little time?
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Post by bigfella72 on Sept 17, 2016 19:56:16 GMT
IMO it wasn't Taylor but more Johnson, Maguire & Sercs who are to blame today for the system not working? But tbh it did work on occasion as we had some really good chances to score!
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Post by oxfordyid on Sept 17, 2016 20:06:49 GMT
I think away from home against decent sides we're right to pack the middle and try to be compact
I am a fan of 4-2-3-1 but not sure we have the right players for the formation presently. Not sure any of our strikers are made for that lone striker slot and because macguire tends to drift the strikers often isolated
Id have brought hemmings on after 70 mins today for sercs
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Post by foley on Sept 17, 2016 20:08:00 GMT
I think away from home against decent sides we're right to pack the middle and try to be compact I am a fan of 4-2-3-1 but not sure we have the right players for the formation presently. Not sure any of our strikers are made for that lone striker slot and because macguire tends to drift the strikers often isolated Id have brought hemmings on after 70 mins today for sercs Hemmings was out injured today
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Post by bigfella72 on Sept 17, 2016 20:08:33 GMT
I think away from home against decent sides we're right to pack the middle and try to be compact I am a fan of 4-2-3-1 but not sure we have the right players for the formation presently. Not sure any of our strikers are made for that lone striker slot and because macguire tends to drift the strikers often isolated Id have brought hemmings on after 70 mins today for sercs Shame he wasn't on the bench
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Post by dannyboy on Sept 17, 2016 20:30:44 GMT
I didn't go to the match today but what I heard from the commentary and what I saw against Swindon I think Appleton may have to rethink his tactics. When he first came to the club he wanted to play 4-2-3-1 come what may and it took a hell of a long time for him to realise that he didn't have the players to make it work. He has brought in some very good players and has once again reverted to the 4-2-3-1 formation. There is no doubt that the 4 , 2 and 3 parts of the formation are working well. It's the lone forward that simply isn't working. Hemming, Thomas and Taylor are all good players in their own way, but they simply don't have the necessary skills to play the lone forward role. It is a specialist role and not too many players can do it. I will probably be corrected by someone who went today, but from the commentary it seemed that the lack of someone to hold the ball long enough for the midfield to get up field meant that when ever we got the ball free and up field it came straight back. I had hoped that Taylor might be the answer, but it sounded if I was wrong. Maybe Maguire might fit the role (if you ignore his lack of aerial ability). In the mean time we either have to accept 0-0 draws or rely on dubious penalties or rather fortunate goals to succeed. (That's not a criticism of the Swindon result by the way. We were lucky with the goals, but we made our own luck by the way were outplayed them). We created the chances, but on numerous times there was no one in the box, Taylor is too slow to receive these crosses, we played too deep just after half time and there needs to be more urgency to shoot, rather than pass it from left to right across the box. It was crying out for a change with around 20 mins to go, with Roberts or Crowley to meet up with Taylor. We played really well overall, but dare I say it, the difference today could have been a Hylton type player to ruffle feathers in the box.
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Post by monsieurgrumpy on Sept 17, 2016 20:51:25 GMT
I was thinking along similar lines today. The only difference between the sides was that MK were prepared to commit more players forward in their attacks. Oxford were always well outnumbered in the attacking third. The midfield were not getting forward to support Taylor with any urgency. They never looked like scoring against us til injury time though, but then they could have got two!
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Post by onlyme on Sept 17, 2016 23:02:11 GMT
I didn't go to the match today but what I heard from the commentary and what I saw against Swindon I think Appleton may have to rethink his tactics. When he first came to the club he wanted to play 4-2-3-1 come what may and it took a hell of a long time for him to realise that he didn't have the players to make it work. He has brought in some very good players and has once again reverted to the 4-2-3-1 formation. There is no doubt that the 4 , 2 and 3 parts of the formation are working well. It's the lone forward that simply isn't working. Hemming, Thomas and Taylor are all good players in their own way, but they simply don't have the necessary skills to play the lone forward role. It is a specialist role and not too many players can do it. I will probably be corrected by someone who went today, but from the commentary it seemed that the lack of someone to hold the ball long enough for the midfield to get up field meant that when ever we got the ball free and up field it came straight back. I had hoped that Taylor might be the answer, but it sounded if I was wrong. Maybe Maguire might fit the role (if you ignore his lack of aerial ability). In the mean time we either have to accept 0-0 draws or rely on dubious penalties or rather fortunate goals to succeed. (That's not a criticism of the Swindon result by the way. We were lucky with the goals, but we made our own luck by the way were outplayed them). "I didn't go to the match today" - That's enough. Should keep quiet.
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Post by onlyme on Sept 17, 2016 23:06:52 GMT
I think away from home against decent sides we're right to pack the middle and try to be compact I am a fan of 4-2-3-1 but not sure we have the right players for the formation presently. Not sure any of our strikers are made for that lone striker slot and because macguire tends to drift the strikers often isolated Id have brought hemmings on after 70 mins today for sercs You sir must be an absolute genius to be able to bring a player on who is not even a named substitute.
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 18, 2016 6:38:27 GMT
So a draw away against a decent side is not good enough for some?
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Post by The Fence End on Sept 18, 2016 7:20:31 GMT
I agree, we're not creating enough clear cut chances. We need the full backs to get forward more and for Johnson to get forward and beat his man like he's supposed to be able to do.
Personally I'd drop Lundstram and bring in Ledson alongside Rothwell, drop Sercombe and put Maguire behind the striker with MacDonald wide right. I feel MacDonald and Johnson should be able to beat their man and supply Hemmings who hopefully will be up and firing soon.
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Post by sox on Sept 18, 2016 7:28:19 GMT
Agree with a lot of what's said... we were struggling once Thomas went off. I was disappointed in Taylor, many had been calling for him to start up top and I thought it worth a go - he got his chance and was poor, making less impact in 75mins than Thomas did in 15 mins. Hopefully Thomas will be back soon. I thought Eastwood and our defence were excellent today and Rothwell looks better every game. Maguire good as always. Over all a good result.
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Post by dabigfella on Sept 18, 2016 7:43:22 GMT
I didn't go to the match today but what I heard from the commentary and what I saw against Swindon I think Appleton may have to rethink his tactics. When he first came to the club he wanted to play 4-2-3-1 come what may and it took a hell of a long time for him to realise that he didn't have the players to make it work. He has brought in some very good players and has once again reverted to the 4-2-3-1 formation. There is no doubt that the 4 , 2 and 3 parts of the formation are working well. It's the lone forward that simply isn't working. Hemming, Thomas and Taylor are all good players in their own way, but they simply don't have the necessary skills to play the lone forward role. It is a specialist role and not too many players can do it. I will probably be corrected by someone who went today, but from the commentary it seemed that the lack of someone to hold the ball long enough for the midfield to get up field meant that when ever we got the ball free and up field it came straight back. I had hoped that Taylor might be the answer, but it sounded if I was wrong. Maybe Maguire might fit the role (if you ignore his lack of aerial ability). In the mean time we either have to accept 0-0 draws or rely on dubious penalties or rather fortunate goals to succeed. (That's not a criticism of the Swindon result by the way. We were lucky with the goals, but we made our own luck by the way were outplayed them). "I didn't go to the match today" - That's enough. Should keep quiet. Why!
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Post by dubaiyellow on Sept 18, 2016 8:21:33 GMT
Okay so we have gone up a league and its going to be harder this year in general. Lots of goals (Roofe, Hylton and COD) left in the summer and I have to agree with a few other comments, whilst I am (very) happy with the start we have made surely the main area that needs to improve is in our attacking play?. Defensively we look solid enough and with Nelson and Ribeiro returning soon, we have strength in depth in that area.
I think we have to look at the stats - 8 goals in 8 games is okay but not great. And in terms of creating?, are we creating enough good scoring chances? Im listening in and taking note of all on here and it seems like its hard to judge our strikers at the moment because they haven't been given much service and/or the formation were playing is not really suiting them?. Even against the scum last week, one goal was (just about) a penalty and the other was a charge down, I know we had a couple more chances but by that point they were down to 10 and the game was stretched.
With a fully fit team, I would be thinking along these lines:
Starting 11 Eastwood Edwards, Dunkley, Nelson, Skarz Ledson Hall, Rothwell Johnson Maguire, Hemmings
Bench: Sercombe - Great energy and can get you a goal but final ball can sometimes lack quality Macca - Ideal Impact player for me Ribeiro - Not seen enough to compare Thomas - Good but im hoping Hemmings can score more Lundstram - Disappointing start, needs to step up Taylor - Good player, but does he suit the system to start? Buchel - No2 to Eastwood
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Post by bigfella72 on Sept 18, 2016 9:03:51 GMT
Agree with a lot of what's said... we were struggling once Thomas went off. I was disappointed in Taylor, many had been calling for him to start up top and I thought it worth a go - he got his chance and was poor, making less impact in 75mins than Thomas did in 15 mins. Hopefully Thomas will be back soon. I thought Eastwood and our defence were excellent today and Rothwell looks better every game. Maguire good as always. Over all a good result. Really??
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Post by Toeby on Sept 18, 2016 9:15:16 GMT
IMO it wasn't Taylor but more Johnson, Maguire & Sercs who are to blame today for the system not working? But tbh it did work on occasion as we had some really good chances to score! I'd agree it was more down to Johnson, Sercombe and Maguire than Taylor yesterday. After taking a while to get into the game I thought Taylor did well in the second half. He won a decent share but the ball was dropping to the other MK Dons centre back as he had nobody with him. If you're playing with Taylor on his own then I think you want wingers going on the outside and whipping it into him, with the 'number 10' looking for the ball off Taylor. The winner against Rochdale - Johnson went down the wing, Taylor went front post and got something on it and Sercombe poked it in. The winner against Peterborough - Taylor flicked onto Maguire who gets the pen. So it was disappointing to see Johnson and Maguire on the wrong side for much of the game and Sercombe a mile away from Taylor most of the time. One of the better chances came when Taylor flicked the ball onto Sercombe with his heel but those chances were few and far between. I think we were a bit worried about getting done on the break by Agard yesterday as we seemed to be quite deep, with the exception of Taylor who just got left on his own. It's one game though, away at a team who were in the Championship last season. A point and clean sheet is no disaster.
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Post by tomox on Sept 18, 2016 9:53:32 GMT
Away from home in league one we will look to play on the counter. We wanted to do this yesterday and that's why Thomas started over Taylor.
We struggled when we were forced into making the change so early as that option was gone and we had to change our plan.
I feel Taylor will actually be more effective at home rather than away, as the three attacking players behind him (assuming we play 4-2-3-1) will be pushed much further up the pitch and much closer to the lone striker. This is where his link up play and flick-ons will be useful.
I also think Maguire needs to play in the no.10 role. He's made for it! Great touch, good on the ball, can pick a pass and has a great shot.
Johnson should then go back on the left where he is most effective and we can bring MacDonald back into the team on the right. However I would love to see Rob Hall in that position later on in the season...
I remember reading the Dundee forum over the summer when we signed Hemmings, and a few of their fans commented on how well he held the ball up as well as looking to make runs in behind. Haven't had the chance to see much of him but he looks like he may be able to play that role well.
Something like this away from home would be a brilliant line-up IMO.
Eastwood
Ribeiro Dunkley Nelson Skarz
Rothwell/Ledson Lundstram
Hall Maguire Johnson
Hemmings
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Post by browny on Sept 18, 2016 9:54:16 GMT
My thoughts were that for the first 20 minutes we were in the main in control and wide positions giving them all sorts of problems. Neither of their full backs crossed the half way line and we were pushing them back. I think we lost the momentum a bit when our wingers switched, in the main I like the idea of switching wingers but yesterday I did not feel it worked and from that point they gained more of a foothold.
As for Taylor, he was very isolated and he did OK without being either good or poor, he was an easy target of those who called in but often challenged with nobody within 30 yards of him so faced an almost impossible task
Overall though we are not one dimensional (I though MK Dons were very 1dimensional) and we have the makings of a very good side. It's been a decent start but yesterday was the start of 3 of the next 4 games against the relegated teams so the start of a real test. The other game is of course against Southend who we have an appalling record against
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Post by captainox on Sept 18, 2016 10:14:08 GMT
The longer the game went on, the more isolated Taylor got. Johnson in particular looked shot a long time before he went off. And it wasn't a surprise to see Lundstram go off as the midfield mobility was rapidly decreasing.
Personally, with the introduction of Taylor, I would have played one of the wingers just off him - probably Maguire and dropped Sercombe back into a more recognisable midfield role.
We were lacking creativity on some of breaks forward, especially in the second half and there was a number of times where we did get in down the sides and there was only one man in the box meaning we then had to pass backwards which allowed MK time to get players to cover.
I'd have brought Macdonald or Roberts on after about 70 minutes although I imagine Macca can't have been fully fit as it was mentioned he actually missed training through his illness.
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Post by monsieurgrumpy on Sept 18, 2016 19:12:53 GMT
If I were a neutral watching the game yesterday, I would have concluded that, overall, a draw was maybe a fair result. For over three quarters of the game, it could have gone either way, but for the last fifteen or twenty minutes there was only one team who wanted to win it. We had settled for a point and they saw the chance to commit more players forward. They realised that we were not going to hit them with any pace on the counter attack and all clearances went straight to their players. I don't know what you thought Taylor was going to do on the rare occasions late in the game when he got the ball.
The question is why? I did not think they were any fitter than we were. I don't think their players were any better than ours. I think the answer lies with Appleton's comments post match, saying how great is was for us to get a point away to a team who were Championship last season. Yeah, well we only got the point because they blew two good chances in injury time. If we went for the win late in the game, we would have had as much of a chance to get it as they did. I would have loved us to have committed more players forward when we attacked especially lat in the game. Our away record last season was great because we did not let any other team in the division over awe us. We also counter attacked with pace and numbers - we didn't do that yesterday.
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Post by socrates on Sept 18, 2016 19:55:18 GMT
Interesting stuff.
Two points.
Maguire's best position (so he says) is central. Now, he'll never be the 1 up top. But behind the striker? Yes. I think he would be very dangerous there.
Taylor is, usually, a good hold-up guy. Gets it down, keeps it, spreads it. We almost always look more dangerous when he makes it stick. Where does this leave Hemmings?
Not sure. It doesn't make sense that we spend 250k on a striker who thrives as a '2' with wingers. And then change our formation. Unless Hemmings can in fact play that role and we're yet to see it of course. He just doesn't strike me as that kind of player.
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Post by browny on Sept 18, 2016 21:00:35 GMT
Interesting stuff. Two points. Maguire's best position (so he says) is central. Now, he'll never be the 1 up top. But behind the striker? Yes. I think he would be very dangerous there. Taylor is, usually, a good hold-up guy. Gets it down, keeps it, spreads it. We almost always look more dangerous when he makes it stick. Where does this leave Hemmings? Not sure. It doesn't make sense that we spend 250k on a striker who thrives as a '2' with wingers. And then change our formation. Unless Hemmings can in fact play that role and we're yet to see it of course. He just doesn't strike me as that kind of player. I am sure I read that Hemmings played last season as a lone striker. I guess had he been on the bench on Saturday we may have got a better idea of whether he could. I am sure we will soon know
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Post by bigronaldo on Sept 18, 2016 21:20:27 GMT
I think mapp may have decided to shore it up later on in the game as it seemed that we were most vulnerable to conceding when we went for it. As soon as the move broke down, they got it forward and caught us upfield a few times. In the end, with those two chances they had at the death, i was happy with a point!
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Post by osleroad on Sept 19, 2016 7:43:50 GMT
If we had indeed scored with Thomas effort then it's not hard to see there would have been a different emphasis. Is it necessarily so that Nelson comes straight back in?
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Post by KLYellow on Sept 19, 2016 8:54:59 GMT
If the season finished now, we ended 12th on 63 points, would everyone be happy?
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Post by The Fence End on Sept 19, 2016 8:57:44 GMT
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 19, 2016 9:00:30 GMT
If the season finished now, we ended 12th on 63 points, would everyone be happy? 3 places below what I'd predicted, but certainly not a bad base to build from. If it included another win over Swindon and a heavy victory over wilder, id be more than happy with that
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Sept 19, 2016 9:20:59 GMT
If the season finished now, we ended 12th on 63 points, would everyone be happy? I'd probably take that. I think we have seen that L1 actually IS a step up from L2 and a midtable finish would be OK for our first season back, having made some pretty major team changes over the summer. Of course, I would be happier if we were to finish higher though!
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Post by botox on Sept 19, 2016 10:06:42 GMT
Unless we improve dramatically, I think we would struggle in the championship, so upper mid table finish would be ok IMO. Then look tweak/improve the team and push on for the championship next season.
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