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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 19, 2016 17:18:51 GMT
IMHO, this underlines why OxVox should hold a members' meeting dedicated to this issue, so all members can get a full understanding of what was done and get clear answers to questions such as this. Will you and Charlie make all your work on it under previous leaderships available to help give them an even better understanding ? As this seems to have still gone unanswered, apart from it being presented to DE which wasn't the question. And seeing we now have Charlie, Myles and mark all involved in this thread. Will the work you all did on this subject, on behalf of oxvox and Oufc be passed to the current oxvox committee so that they can use it in the work they are doing to get the best understanding possible ? Easy to say they haven't done this or haven't asked that, or this isn't possible because !!!!, if you have asked those questions but haven't passed on/made that info available then they are starting from scratch again
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Post by myles on Aug 19, 2016 17:28:44 GMT
Firstly, this wasn't my work.
And secondly this has been answered not only on this thread but also a number of times when you've asked the same question in the past.
I'd also add that as the current exercise was to develop a fully independent understanding of the stadium issues, starting from scratch wouldn't have been a bad thing, particularly 2-3 years down the line.
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 17:48:59 GMT
Will you and Charlie make all your work on it under previous leaderships available to help give them an even better understanding ? As this seems to have still gone unanswered, apart from it being presented to DE which wasn't the question. And seeing we now have Charlie, Myles and mark all involved in this thread. Will the work you all did on this subject, on behalf of oxvox and Oufc be passed to the current oxvox committee so that they can use it in the work they are doing to get the best understanding possible ? Easy to say they haven't done this or haven't asked that, or this isn't possible because !!!!, if you have asked those questions but haven't passed on/made that info available then they are starting from scratch again EXACTLY, and surely if they HAVE been asked by Oxvox it would have been made public within their minutes etc, and as they are not, it then leads me, and others, to think that the questions have not been asked and if not why not and when will they be asked? From what I can gather, and I may be wrong here, so please correct me if I am, but it seems as though we have two different types of report in circulation. 1) From Charlie et al under the instruction of IL and 2) Oxvox. Surely, for the benefit of the security of OUFC BOTH parties should meet face to face and amalgamate BOTH sets of findings into ONE (water-tight where every question has been asked and researched thoroughly) Report and presented to the current board as it seems that both reports have raised and answered some issues that the other has not and it seems that one contradicts another to some extent. It does seem as though there are different factions working against each other here and a little bit of "it's my ball and I am going home so sod the lot of you" type scenario happening. You NEED to be working together to share knowledge to come up with the best scenario for the benefit of the club FFS it's not rocket science.
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 17:50:41 GMT
Firstly, this wasn't my work. And secondly this has been answered not only on this thread but also a number of times when you've asked the same question in the past. I'd also add that as the current exercise was to develop a fully independent understanding of the stadium issues, starting from scratch wouldn't have been a bad thing, particularly 2-3 years down the line. Interesting. So that rules out Charlie and Oxvox's reports then! Anyone else fancy a bash?
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 19, 2016 17:53:29 GMT
Apologies Myles I thought u were also an ex oxvox committee member. And also I must have missed the previous answer, could u refresh my memory? And yes I agree starting again may possibly be a good thing, But with the amount of work all ready put in specifically into WE, info such as stadium designs, costings, minuets of meetings with the land owners and councils would all be very useful and add to a fuller understanding of the situation. After all everyone's got the same goal, the best possible future for Oufc.
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 17:56:45 GMT
My worry is that if Kassam was to announce a stadium purchase deal has been struck on Monday Morning, despite the RTB thing that is in place with Oxvox, no one, DE, the club, Oxvox etc, no one 6 months down the line would be able to do a damn thing about it and OUFC would potentially be homeless as no one could (or would) be willing to counter the offer and the fact that there are no other potential home ground to be found within 6 months
As this is the most important issue within OUFC at the minute (yep, even more important than Apps 3 players he wants to buy, or 3 points on Saturday or even what design to have on a nasty flag when the Scum visit in September) no one, it seems, is actively progressing this on a real time-frame and giving it the importance and urgency it surely deserves
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 17:59:07 GMT
Apologies Myles I thought u were also an ex oxvox committee member. And also I must have missed the previous answer, could u refresh my memory? And yes I agree starting again may possibly be a good thing, But with the amount of work all ready put in specifically into WE, info such as stadium designs, costings, minuets of meetings with the land owners and councils would all be very useful and add to a fuller understanding of the situation. After all everyone's got the same goal, the best possible future for Oufc. Well said fella. But didn't Charlie's findings rule OUT WE as well as Oxvox's minutes dated 4th August? In that case, why is WE STILL being considered?
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 19, 2016 18:00:03 GMT
We wouldn't have to find a new ground in 6 months. But I get ur point, we have another 10/12 years on the lease, who ever brought the stadium would still have to honour that wouldn't they ?
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 18:12:27 GMT
We wouldn't have to find a new ground in 6 months. But I get ur point, we have another 10/12 years on the lease, who ever brought the stadium would still have to honour that wouldn't they ? I don't think so. They could give you a notice period (whatever it states within the lease) or pay you compo, but I believe compo would only be at the current rent rate, so, for example, IF the notice period is 12 months then they can give you notice that in 12 months you are out or they can pay you 12 months (1 years) rent at current rate - £500,000 or whatever it is. So, would OUFC be able to find a home within 12 months and with £500,000??? Doubt it. It's took how long to get here with no real progress! For the record I would be amazed if the notice period WAS only 12 months! Mind you, saying that, it wouldn't surprise me because who would be silly enough to buy a football club without the ground in the first place - DOH!! Even in extreme circumstances it has been known for a Landlord to take it's tenants to the High Court and force an eviction for the benefit of a sale / development.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 19, 2016 18:14:46 GMT
But it currently has to be used for sporting use doesn't it, so unless it's a another side, the new owner would be pretty stupid to evict the only club that would play there. When the council wouldn't (you would hope) allow them to then do anything else
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 18:22:24 GMT
But it currently has to be used for sporting use doesn't it, so unless it's a another side, the new owner would be pretty stupid to evict the only club that would play there. When the council wouldn't (you would hope) allow them to then do anything else Do NOT count on the council doing anything. The council (OCC) has shit on OUFC for years, apart from when they see the benefit of an open top bus parade to boost the City status, so why would you gamble on them helping out OUFC now? Plus, when it comes to developments etc, have you not heard of brown envelopes and sweeteners??? Where I live, the development company AND the LANDOWNER bypassed local government and went straight to Westminster to get their plans approved DESPITE the council and everybody else strongly objecting. IF FK was to find a developer wanting to purchase said stadium to bulldoze and develop, there are ways of doing it and getting around any current contract (even though it may cost him a few quid!). Plus, who HAS the contract saying it has to be used for sporting? Kassam, that's who. IF FK was to sell, then he is no longer obligated to provide a sporting venue and if the council get a nice kick back, I doubt they would care either! The moral of the story is, dont rely on ANYONE helping out and doing OUFC favors UNLESS it has it in writing, which of course it doesn't. OUFC MUST progress as though it is on it's own with no friends and back up to avoid being shat on and left in the lurch
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 19, 2016 18:35:00 GMT
Still not reminded me Myles ! Sorry if I'm being annoying but ur the only one of the 3 to semi answer the question. Was a meeting called to present the previous findings under the past committee, that I could just read the minuets too? I wasn't a member back then.
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Post by foley on Aug 19, 2016 18:42:44 GMT
Tell you what, how about I raise the £20m, buy the Kassam myself, kick out OUFC - BYE! - and let Swindon Town reserves play there?! Er you can't kick OUFC out as they have 10 years remaining of the lease (I believe)
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Post by foley on Aug 19, 2016 18:47:20 GMT
We wouldn't have to find a new ground in 6 months. But I get ur point, we have another 10/12 years on the lease, who ever brought the stadium would still have to honour that wouldn't they ? I don't think so. They could give you a notice period (whatever it states within the lease) or pay you compo, but I believe compo would only be at the current rent rate, so, for example, IF the notice period is 12 months then they can give you notice that in 12 months you are out or they can pay you 12 months (1 years) rent at current rate - £500,000 or whatever it is. In my view IL cocked up big time when he purchased the club and not the ground. But I would be staggered if the owner could simply give a notice period. I would think that we are in the ground for 10 years unless FK will let us break the lease early. So I have no idea where your assumption that somebody can simply kick us out comes from?
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Post by eighteen93 on Aug 19, 2016 19:42:40 GMT
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 21:59:08 GMT
Tell you what, how about I raise the £20m, buy the Kassam myself, kick out OUFC - BYE! - and let Swindon Town reserves play there?! Er you can't kick OUFC out as they have 10 years remaining of the lease (I believe) Not if it gets sold they don't as you only have that lease agreement with Kassam (or Stadco). Why do you think that a Right to buy, or whatever it is called (basically being given 6 months notice of any potential sale), was obtained?
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 22:01:53 GMT
I don't think so. They could give you a notice period (whatever it states within the lease) or pay you compo, but I believe compo would only be at the current rent rate, so, for example, IF the notice period is 12 months then they can give you notice that in 12 months you are out or they can pay you 12 months (1 years) rent at current rate - £500,000 or whatever it is. In my view IL cocked up big time when he purchased the club and not the ground. But I would be staggered if the owner could simply give a notice period. I would think that we are in the ground for 10 years unless FK will let us break the lease early. So I have no idea where your assumption that somebody can simply kick us out comes from? As in most, if not all, tenancy agreements it will stipulate what would, or needs, to happen and who would be liable for what if either party would want to terminate the agreement early. Whether that would be issuing a notice period (say 6 months, 1 year, 2 years etc) or a monetary penalty
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Post by minime on Aug 19, 2016 22:14:28 GMT
Notes from Oxvox minutes - 4th August
"The findings are that the stadium does lend itself very well to a significant capacity increase and a figure of 25,000+ is very achievable without needing to demolish any of the existing stands"
Why the hell would OUFC want and need a 25,000 seater stadium at considerable cost whether that is at the Kassam or WE?
Where are these additional 16-17,000 supporters going to come from?
Why not initially build a new ground or extend the Kassam to 15,000 to start with and then when OUFC get decent and a decent fan base is there that require 25,000 seats (LMAO!) then you can gradually increase what you have and the cost for this is more evenly spread out over a number of years / seasons rather than in one lump sum.
Some one out there is in cloud cuckoo land!
Season Total Games Av gate 2010-11 167,380 23 7,277 2011-12 171,378 23 8,411 2012-13 136,957 23 5.955 2013-14 136,240 23 5,923 2014-15 141,531 23 6,154 2015-16 165,860 23 7,211 TOTAL 919,346 138 6,662
Where is the need for a 25,000 seater stadium. Just on the off chance that you get Man Utd at home in the 3rd rnd of the FA Cup???
Someone needs to give their head a wobble!
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Post by whingit on Aug 19, 2016 23:09:32 GMT
Notes from Oxvox minutes - 4th August "The findings are that the stadium does lend itself very well to a significant capacity increase and a figure of 25,000+ is very achievable without needing to demolish any of the existing stands" Why the hell would OUFC want and need a 25,000 seater stadium at considerable cost whether that is at the Kassam or WE? Where are these additional 16-17,000 supporters going to come from? Why not initially build a new ground or extend the Kassam to 15,000 to start with and then when OUFC get decent and a decent fan base is there that require 25,000 seats (LMAO!) then you can gradually increase what you have and the cost for this is more evenly spread out over a number of years / seasons rather than in one lump sum. Some one out there is in cloud cuckoo land! Season Total Games Av gate 2010-11 167,380 23 7,277 2011-12 171,378 23 8,411 2012-13 136,957 23 5.955 2013-14 136,240 23 5,923 2014-15 141,531 23 6,154 2015-16 165,860 23 7,211 TOTAL 919,346 138 6,662 Where is the need for a 25,000 seater stadium. Just on the off chance that you get Man Utd at home in the 3rd rnd of the FA Cup??? Someone needs to give their head a wobble! I don't think it's quite as stupid as you make out. Looking at the attendances of Reading, Wigan and Brighton over the years, there is a rather large increase in attendances as their place in the pyramid grows. Obviously, none are directly comparable, but needing a 25k seater stadium at some stage isn't out of the question, although I agree that increasing the capacity gradually is the sensible thing to do. I don't think the quote you provided suggests that it would all be done at once, though. www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/read.htmwww.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/wiga.htmwww.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/bha.htm
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Post by Barts on Aug 19, 2016 23:10:58 GMT
Notes from Oxvox minutes - 4th August "The findings are that the stadium does lend itself very well to a significant capacity increase and a figure of 25,000+ is very achievable without needing to demolish any of the existing stands" Why the hell would OUFC want and need a 25,000 seater stadium at considerable cost whether that is at the Kassam or WE? Where are these additional 16-17,000 supporters going to come from? Why not initially build a new ground or extend the Kassam to 15,000 to start with and then when OUFC get decent and a decent fan base is there that require 25,000 seats (LMAO!) then you can gradually increase what you have and the cost for this is more evenly spread out over a number of years / seasons rather than in one lump sum. Some one out there is in cloud cuckoo land! Season Total Games Av gate 2010-11 167,380 23 7,277 2011-12 171,378 23 8,411 2012-13 136,957 23 5.955 2013-14 136,240 23 5,923 2014-15 141,531 23 6,154 2015-16 165,860 23 7,211 TOTAL 919,346 138 6,662 Where is the need for a 25,000 seater stadium. Just on the off chance that you get Man Utd at home in the 3rd rnd of the FA Cup??? Someone needs to give their head a wobble! Go on then, I'll have a nibble.. Aren't you a west brom fan? What were their gates in the late 80s early 90s? 8-10k in what is now the championship. It's not just west brom, many clubs in the premiership/championship have a bigger following than they did 30 years ago. Thirty years ago anyone saying west brom would bid £20m on a player would also have been accused 'living in cloud cuckoo land' Teams evolve, now I'm not saying we'll get 25000 in the next few years, but you end up spending more money having too keep redeveloping the stadium.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 20, 2016 6:41:24 GMT
Is it just me?, but it doesn't say we would increase it to 25k straight away. It's says it has the potential to. So you comment of why don't we just make it 15k initially and then extended as its needed, is exactly what it's bloody saying.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 20, 2016 6:58:08 GMT
Still not reminded me Myles ! Sorry if I'm being annoying but ur the only one of the 3 to semi answer the question. Was a meeting called to present the previous findings under the past committee, that I could just read the minuets too? I wasn't a member back then. I haven't wanted to do this, because it comes somewhat under the heading of dirty linen washing. But I met two members of the current OxVox committee in January. We had a brief meeting, and I offered at that point to join the group working on this and to introduce the group to the property consultant who worked on it for us. That offer was turned down, and I never heard anything again from OxVox. Fair enough. It was their project, their ball, and they had every right to decide to take said ball away and play on their own. But I'm not having it implied that I haven't tried to help. Separately, Myles and Mark were concerned enough about what was going on that, having recently resigned, they applied to re-join the committee, where they were subjected to a slate system of influential voices 'letting it be known' who their favoured candidates were (ie everyone other than Myles or Mark). Again, fair enough. I've run enough things to know how tiresome it is to have independent voices speaking up when you want just to be able to push things along without much query! So, to answer your endless questions about why - if we care so much and know a fair bit - Myles, Mark and I haven't been involved in this process, the people to ask that question to is not us, but OxVox. We have done everything we can to involve ourselves and have been turned down. Which on the one hand is odd, given that Myles is the expert on the current stadium status (thru his health and safety work), Mark did the Right to Bid and has a strong relationship with (and understanding of) Kassam and I spent two years commissioned by the previous owner to look at this in depth together with property professionals. But, on the other hand, not so odd, given that all three of us had independently, and for different reasons, already come to a different point of view on the Kassam Stadium than that which the report wanted to reach. One final point: whilst some of the contacts I made and hidden truths uncovered are still certainly relevant today, other things that were true 2 and a half years ago will have changed now. So I am certainly not suggesting that the report I did, or the conclusions I reached, would be the 'right' ones now. There was every reason to do a comprehensive, new, independent look at all the options and to give members a serious chance to debate this massively important issue with all the facts before them.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 20, 2016 7:15:37 GMT
So basically no you haven't passed on info.
That's fair enough Charlie. But why not hand over the paper work, rather than offering to rejoin, not necessarily stuff u did for il (although it would obviously be helpful). But certainly oxvox related stuff. If the work was done on behalf of the trust then surely it's property of the trust. As for people not wanting you or them back involved, I think that's more to do with the constant bickering and the way oxvox had gone over the years , I certainly had no intention of joining it until the new regime had taken over, and I think the membership figure suggest that a lot of fans were the same. Jem and co seem to be a breath of fresh air. I don't know if you Myles and mark are still current members, but you clearly have the same ambition as the rest of us, the best possible future for Oufc. If you all clearly believe that's at WE then surely providing the people doing the current investigation with the info that backs that, could help you achieve your views. You can't keep saying they are wrong on this and haven't done that, and in the same breath refuse to pass over papers that they need to make those decisions.
I think it's got to the stage where all 3 of you need to either let them get on with it, without constantly moaning and saying how shit their findings are, or pool everything you guys have in with theirs (without strings of being reelected) and let's get a final proposal that can't be put in front of the Oufc board, and from there start moving forward to achieving everyone's goal. Like you said not so long ago it's not so much about where it is, it's about it being OURS . Coyy
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 20, 2016 7:17:57 GMT
Is it just me?, but it doesn't say we would increase it to 25k straight away. It's says it has the potential to. So you comment of why don't we just make it 15k initially and then extended as its needed, is exactly what it's bloody saying. Yes indeed. And of course it is true that if we bought the whole Kassam Stadium site off Firoz then there is enough land to knock down the north stand, say, and build another one. But very little thought or research seems to have been given/ done into the affordability of all this, or the financing of it. Buying the Kassam Stadium in its full glory (ie without Firoz filling in the corners, thus preventing any future increase in capacity) is going to cost 15 million quid. Then you have to build a 4000 seater West Stand to take us up to 16k capacity. That is another 4.5 million, so you're already at 20 million just to get to the 16k capacity that we DEFINITELY need if we're to progress at all. If you were then to knock down the North Stand and double that in size (the easiest way of increasing capacity) together with filling in corners to East and West, then that is a 10 million pound project. So we're at 30 million spend for a 24k capacity stadium. That is with no new stadium build grants (3.5 million), no or little stadium naming rights deal (5 million) and no contribution from Firoz to bugger off from the site to let houses be built all over it. I hate to come over all practical, but will the person with 20-30 million - or even 12 million cash pre debt financing - burning a hole in their pocket please step forward? It's a heck of a big donation! In terms of the desired capacity, absolutely we need to be able to get to 20k or above. I said two years ago that in League 1 we would get average crowds of 9k, and was shouted down. But if we are doing half decently, we will. And in the Championship that would increase exponentially. We'd average 15k minimum and sell at least 8k season tickets. For that, you'd need at least a 20k capacity. Wouldn't want to be locking several thousand out against Newcastle, Leeds, Derby, Villa etc. The whole paradigm has totally changed. Large provincial clubs with big cachment areas have benefitted disproportionately from football becoming more acceptable to the middle class. Hence why county clubs like Brighton, Derby, Norwich etc are getting upwards of 25-30k a game. Oxford United's lateral fanbase is increasing fast and Championship football is the trigger for a lot of those people to increase their attendance from twice a season to ten times a season.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 20, 2016 7:23:15 GMT
So basically no you haven't passed on info. That's fair enough Charlie. But why not hand over the paper work, rather than offering to rejoin, not necessarily stuff u did for il (although it would obviously be helpful). But certainly oxvox related stuff. If the work was done on behalf of the trust then surely it's property of the trust. As for people not wanting you or them back involved, I think that's more to do with the constant bickering and the way oxvox had gone over the years , I certainly had no intention of joining it until the new regime had taken over, and I think the membership figure suggest that a lot of fans were the same. Jem and co seem to be a breath of fresh air. I don't know if you Myles and mark are still current members, but you clearly have the same ambition as the rest of us, the best possible future for Oufc. If you all clearly believe that's at WE then surely providing the people doing the current investigation with the info that backs that, could help you achieve your views. You can't keep saying they are wrong on this and haven't done that, and in the same breath refuse to pass over papers that they need to make those decisions. I think it's got to the stage where all 3 of you need to either let them get on with it, without constantly moaning and saying how shit their findings are, or pool everything you guys have in with theirs (without strings of being reelected) and let's get a final proposal that can't be put in front of the Oufc board, and from there start moving forward to achieving everyone's goal. Like you said not so long ago it's not so much about where it is, it's about it being OURS . Coyy ERM, I don't think that that is very even-handed! Either everyone should want everyone to be involved, or else not. You can't have it both ways. To repeat, on the detail: there were two reports. One by OxVox (I think with the help of the current MD, by the way!) which of course has been given to OxVox (I assume it was, anyway!) and another by an independent property consultant for IL. This was presented to IL and then, on IL's recommendation, to Darryl. But it is not my property and I do not have a copy. I offered to join the group and take them to that consultant, not chiefly because of his work on WE but because of the detailed work he had done on the Kassam Stadium. What more could I have done?
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 20, 2016 7:27:59 GMT
That's exactly what I said in that post mate, your work was private and entirely up to you whether you feel you want to pass that over (personally I would as it would help my club, and maybe get the outcome I want)
What I'm talking about is the work oxvox did. Like you say you only assume it's been passed on, I'm sure at a previous members meeting or notes from a committee meeting it was said that it hadn't. And as it was done in the name of oxvox, albeit by a different committee I don't thinks that's right. If it has then apologises for going on about it.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 20, 2016 7:28:43 GMT
So basically no you haven't passed on info. That's fair enough Charlie. But why not hand over the paper work, rather than offering to rejoin, not necessarily stuff u did for il (although it would obviously be helpful). But certainly oxvox related stuff. If the work was done on behalf of the trust then surely it's property of the trust. As for people not wanting you or them back involved, I think that's more to do with the constant bickering and the way oxvox had gone over the years , I certainly had no intention of joining it until the new regime had taken over, and I think the membership figure suggest that a lot of fans were the same. Jem and co seem to be a breath of fresh air. I don't know if you Myles and mark are still current members, but you clearly have the same ambition as the rest of us, the best possible future for Oufc. If you all clearly believe that's at WE then surely providing the people doing the current investigation with the info that backs that, could help you achieve your views. You can't keep saying they are wrong on this and haven't done that, and in the same breath refuse to pass over papers that they need to make those decisions. I think it's got to the stage where all 3 of you need to either let them get on with it, without constantly moaning and saying how shit their findings are, or pool everything you guys have in with theirs (without strings of being reelected) and let's get a final proposal that can't be put in front of the Oufc board, and from there start moving forward to achieving everyone's goal. Like you said not so long ago it's not so much about where it is, it's about it being OURS . Coyy ERM, I don't think that that is very even-handed! Either everyone should want everyone to be involved, or else not. You can't have it both ways. To repeat, on the detail: there were two reports. One by OxVox (I think with the help of the current MD, by the way!) which of course has been given to OxVox (I assume it was, anyway!) and another by an independent property consultant for IL. This was presented to IL and then, on IL's recommendation, to Darryl. But it is not my property and I do not have a copy. I offered to join the group and take them to that consultant, not chiefly because of his work on WE but because of the detailed work he had done on the Kassam Stadium. What more could I have done? Furthermore, are you seriously suggesting that it is 'moaning' to point out that SODC have specifically ruled out development of any kind south of Grenoble Road? If so, then you need to grow up fast, chum. Relevant facts are relevant facts. That should have been in these 'findings' and you should be welcoming posters bringing new facts to the party. If not, then I fear one would have to start questioning your motives and agenda.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 20, 2016 7:30:59 GMT
Not questioning it at all. It's sometimes the way its put across, coming over like (as you put it) little kids bitter that they ain't allowed to play anymore. When was the last time you posted something positive about oxvox? Are you all still paid up members ?
Maybe just a post saying, I'm sure the land is sodc and won't be given permission, maybe you would like to check that point? Rather than show how seriously they are taken it, obviously haven't spoken to the right people, basic mistake, all the facts are there if they bothered to ask the proper questions.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 20, 2016 7:33:18 GMT
That's exactly what I said in that post mate, your work was private and entirely up to you whether you feel you want to pass that over (personally I would as it would help my club, and maybe get the outcome I want) What I'm talking about is the work oxvox did. Like you say you only assume it's been passed on, I'm sure at a previous members meeting or notes from a committee meeting it was said that it hadn't. And as it was done in the name of oxvox, albeit by a different committee I don't thinks that's right. If it has then apologises for going on about it. Stop being a t*at, pal. It wasn't 'my private work'. It was work done by a property consultant at IL's behest. That work was then presented to Darryl, quite correctly. The best I could do was offer to take OxVox to see him to look at his findings. The previous OxVox leadership did that. Sennett, Bradbury etc can confirm that I introduced him and his findings. So I have been a conduit to both club and to OxVox and then offered to help the 'new' OxVox. How much more straightforward can I have been?
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 20, 2016 7:36:46 GMT
Don't start down the personal insults again Charlie. I wasn't being a t*at, I was trying to draw a difference between the work you did and the work oxvox did on the subject , and actually supporting you a , maybe private wasn't the right word, but it Wasn't intended as a dig, and I didn't realise u were quite so precious to take it that way
Not once have I demanded that you hand over those papers, or said that you haven't offered to help. If mark and Myles have passed on their work then that's fine, like you said even you presumed they have. So far I haven't had an answer from either of them or oxvox about it. If they have then great thanks very much and this has been the longest drawn out answer to the most simple bloody question I have ever asked
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