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Post by minime on Oct 3, 2016 7:25:38 GMT
As I said in my post any boycott would need to be long term and could be many months or several years. This is the main reason It is unlikely to succeed but at some point we need to do something. Yes we can put pressure on in other ways such as the Priory issue but those will not have a direct effect on the Stadco and thus the Club. The publicity impact of an effective short term boycott may have some effect and make Kassam realise that he needs to change his attitude to the club/fans if he cares about the profitability of the Stadco. Kassam knows all too well that the Council have massive targets and financial incentive to increase housing stock so whatever our planning protests they will be pushed through in the end. I absolutely agree that buying the Stadium has to be the focus and I did a lot to encourage Oxvox to pursue this when I was a board member a few years ago. In fact this was why I joined the board in the first place. Unfortunately I was not able to commit sufficient time to really help push this forward. If Kassam is willing to sell at the £13M that was suggested by Ian Lenegan almost a decade ago then that may be the only option. My preferred option was a fans trust with funding from a variety of methods. This price may be well above the real value of the stadium but in the long term it would remove the stranglehold that Kassam has over the club. A situation which will only get significantly worse if we get to the Championship. Alternatively Charlie's plans for a move to a new stadium may be the best option but something has to be done and soon. Think you can safely say that £13m is not going to get you the stadium
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Post by minime on Oct 3, 2016 7:26:24 GMT
No way on earth would FK 'sell at cost' He is a very hard nosed businessman who is prepared to cut off his nose to spite his face. If he is prepared to sell at cost (no chance) then somebody with OUFC interest at heart needs to move quickly ... But isn't that exactly what the £13m figure that always been chucked around is. That is what he said from the start what it cost him to build/finish haha the ground And he is not going to sell for no profit, so you can forget £13m
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 3, 2016 7:30:57 GMT
But isn't that exactly what the £13m figure that always been chucked around is. That is what he said from the start what it cost him to build/finish haha the ground And he is not going to sell for no profit, so you can forget £13m Depends what u class as profit, he's made 500k a year profit on that investment, as well as all the things around the stadium that it has got him. It may be he has got what he wanted from the site. The key issue being no one has ever made an offer so it's hard to say what he will or won't accept. Every chairman since has quoted the figure as £13m . It maybe and that a big maybe worth more than that as development land as there is no guarantee to him that will ever happen and would be years away
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Post by ox44xp on Oct 3, 2016 9:22:13 GMT
I seem to recall that the £13m figure was quoted four or five years back and it was comprised of £10m for the stadium itself and £3m in lieu of future earnings
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Post by Colin B on Oct 3, 2016 13:06:30 GMT
As I said in my post any boycott would need to be long term and could be many months or several years. This is the main reason It is unlikely to succeed but at some point we need to do something. Yes we can put pressure on in other ways such as the Priory issue but those will not have a direct effect on the Stadco and thus the Club. The publicity impact of an effective short term boycott may have some effect and make Kassam realise that he needs to change his attitude to the club/fans if he cares about the profitability of the Stadco. Kassam knows all too well that the Council have massive targets and financial incentive to increase housing stock so whatever our planning protests they will be pushed through in the end. I absolutely agree that buying the Stadium has to be the focus and I did a lot to encourage Oxvox to pursue this when I was a board member a few years ago. In fact this was why I joined the board in the first place. Unfortunately I was not able to commit sufficient time to really help push this forward. If Kassam is willing to sell at the £13M that was suggested by Ian Lenegan almost a decade ago then that may be the only option. My preferred option was a fans trust with funding from a variety of methods. This price may be well above the real value of the stadium but in the long term it would remove the stranglehold that Kassam has over the club. A situation which will only get significantly worse if we get to the Championship. Alternatively Charlie's plans for a move to a new stadium may be the best option but something has to be done and soon. Think you can safely say that £13m is not going to get you the stadium And you know this how, exactly?
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Post by scoob on Oct 4, 2016 2:52:13 GMT
But isn't that exactly what the £13m figure that always been chucked around is. That is what he said from the start what it cost him to build/finish haha the ground And he is not going to sell for no profit, so you can forget £13m I mentioned the decade ago as I also had my doubts that he will now sell at that price as a lot has happened since then, including the relaxation of planning rules. However, others have suggested that he may be willing to sell at that price. He has made plenty from his association with OUFC including hundreds of thousands of pounds per year cash returned by the Stadco. If a fans Trust (not necessarily OXVOX) was involved in the purchase then he may be willing to take a less commercial view of the value. That may be a dream but that is my only hope of the transfer of the Stadium to the benefit of OUFC. At that price a lot has to fall into place to make it work. Any higher and it becomes even more difficult.
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Post by scoob on Oct 4, 2016 2:53:52 GMT
I seem to recall that the £13m figure was quoted four or five years back and it was comprised of £10m for the stadium itself and £3m in lieu of future earnings That is roughly how the price was derived but it was more than five years as it was Lenegan's first Fans Forum just after we dropped out of the league (2007?)
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Post by foley on Oct 4, 2016 6:22:00 GMT
And he is not going to sell for no profit, so you can forget £13m I mentioned the decade ago as I also had my doubts that he will now sell at that price as a lot has happened since then, including the relaxation of planning rules. However, others have suggested that he may be willing to sell at that price. He has made plenty from his association with OUFC including hundreds of thousands of pounds per year cash returned by the Stadco. I f a fans Trust (not necessarily OXVOX) was involved in the purchase then he may be willing to take a less commercial view of the value. That may be a dream but that is my only hope of the transfer of the Stadium to the benefit of OUFC. At that price a lot has to fall into place to make it work. Any higher and it becomes even more difficult. That seems to be the way that Oxvox are taking things. Of course it will need the Council's help, and there must be other key people involved. As we are more successful I suspect that there is a window of opportunity that maybe won't be there for long. I would suggest that this is quite an important time in the club's history.
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Post by scoob on Oct 4, 2016 17:48:12 GMT
Lets keep our fingers crossed that OXVOX are successful in putting this together and persuading Kassam to sell if that is the route they feel is the best for the future of OUFC.
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Post by headingtonutd on Oct 4, 2016 23:05:05 GMT
I'm not sure you persuade Kassam about anything. I think he does what works best for him irrespective of boycotts, bullying, the council being slightly miffed with him or us calling him names. I think we need to put an offer to him that works for him and us. His position is too good for him just to give it up because we are fed up paying for a deal that was signed for us by a man who couldn't even manage to pull on a pair of socks let alone pull together a coherent plan for the club at the time.
With the progress we have made under this chairman there is a real appetite now to move forward with this. I joined OxVox because I honestly believe that if the work they put in finds us a way to get the ground back into our hands and lock it in then now is the best chance we have had to do that in years.
I do think that the best chance of it happening would be a deal that involves the council actually using it's power in a decisive and planned way to get what they want from the rest of the site and us offering Kassam the chance to increase his potential to earn from it. If that's through housing or increased commercial development I have no idea at the moment, but there is a slim chance that mutual interests could aline here and when they do, deals often get done.
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Post by jimmycarterxi on Oct 5, 2016 0:46:16 GMT
I'm not sure you persuade Kassam about anything. I think he does what works best for him irrespective of boycotts, bullying, the council being slightly miffed with him or us calling him names. I think we need to put an offer to him that works for him and us. His position is too good for him just to give it up because we are fed up paying for a deal that was signed for us by a man who couldn't even manage to pull on a pair of socks let alone pull together a coherent plan for the club at the time. With the progress we have made under this chairman there is a real appetite now to move forward with this. I joined OxVox because I honestly believe that if the work they put in finds us a way to get the ground back into our hands and lock it in then now is the best chance we have had to do that in years. I do think that the best chance of it happening would be a deal that involves the council actually using it's power in a decisive and planned way to get what they want from the rest of the site and us offering Kassam the chance to increase his potential to earn from it. If that's through housing or increased commercial development I have no idea at the moment, but there is a slim chance that mutual interests could aline here and when they do, deals often get done. I applaud oxvox for the hard work they are putting in re purchase of ground. However I don't think for one minute they are a match for Kassam in terms of getting a good deal. Will the council help us?? Ha ha will they hell, what additional development could they offer Kassam? He's cornerd the market in your basic hotel, bowlplex, cinema, cr*p food chain etc Don't know what land he could build housing on site other than where the 4th stand would go or tower blocks in the corners (no thanks mate)
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Post by foley on Oct 5, 2016 6:07:33 GMT
I have no idea at the moment, but there is a slim chance that mutual interests could aline here and when they do, deals often get done. I applaud oxvox for the hard work they are putting in re purchase of ground. However I don't think for one minute they are a match for Kassam in terms of getting a good deal.
Will the council help us?? Ha ha will they hell, what additional development could they offer Kassam? He's cornerd the market in your basic hotel, bowlplex, cinema, cr*p food chain etc Don't know what land he could build housing on site other than where the 4th stand would go or tower blocks in the corners (no thanks mate) Let's hope that you are wrong. I reckon that Oxvox reckon that it is possible to come up with a solution as they seem to be putting a load of work into it. I agree with Headingtonutd in so fra as any deal will have to include the council and Kassam will have to gain out of the deal, but so will OUFC and the cvommunity.
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Post by headingtonutd on Oct 5, 2016 7:37:40 GMT
I do think that the best chance of it happening would be a deal that involves the council actually using it's power in a decisive and planned way to get what they want from the rest of the site and us offering Kassam the chance to increase his potential to earn from it. If that's through housing or increased commercial development I have no idea at the moment, but there is a slim chance that mutual interests could aline here and when they do, deals often get done. I applaud oxvox for the hard work they are putting in re purchase of ground. However I don't think for one minute they are a match for Kassam in terms of getting a good deal. Will the council help us?? Ha ha will they hell, what additional development could they offer Kassam? He's cornerd the market in your basic hotel, bowlplex, cinema, cr*p food chain etc Don't know what land he could build housing on site other than where the 4th stand would go or tower blocks in the corners (no thanks mate) I disagree on a few points Jimmy. Firstly remember that while OxVox are not stupid themselves and are doing fantastic work (and i'm sure they won't mind me saying this) they are just preparing the ground for DE to move forward from. He is no fool and has made a very good living out of putting together some very big deals. On that front i'd even say he has played at a higher level than Kassam. The point I made about the council being involved was that they needed to gain some benefit from it. When talking about the site the value is not really in where the ground sits I totally agree, it's in what surrounds it. The overflow car parking for example and land around it. The council have massive pressure on them for new housing and to generate business and leisure opportunity in the city. Believe it or not they also recognise that a strong and stable football club is good for the city. We bring in visitors (money) and raise the profile of the city although I agree with you they have a funny way of showing it! It may be we can't put anything together and we may plod on the way we are, but surely with chairman and board we have in place, now's the time to try?
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Post by foley on Oct 5, 2016 8:24:15 GMT
Don't know what land he could build housing on site other than where the 4th stand would go or tower blocks in the corners (no thanks mate) I disagree on a few points Jimmy. Firstly remember that while OxVox are not stupid themselves and are doing fantastic work (and i'm sure they won't mind me saying this) they are just preparing the ground for DE to move forward from. He is no fool and has made a very good living out of putting together some very big deals. On that front i'd even say he has played at a higher level than Kassam. The point I made about the council being involved was that they needed to gain some benefit from it. When talking about the site the value is not really in where the ground sits I totally agree, it's in what surrounds it. The overflow car parking for example and land around it. The council have massive pressure on them for new housing and to generate business and leisure opportunity in the city. Believe it or not they also recognise that a strong and stable football club is good for the city. We bring in visitors (money) and raise the profile of the city although I agree with you they have a funny way of showing it! It may be we can't put anything together and we may plod on the way we are, but surely with chairman and board we have in place, now's the time to try?Agree with all of that. I think that now is a pivotal moment for the club. We can only 'plod on the way we are' whilst we have somebody as generous as DE in charge. If he leaves? How could the club survive with losses of £1M pa plus? It needs to have a ground where it can make other revenue streams and not be hamstrung by the owner (and one which can be developed further if we gain promotion)
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 6, 2016 9:11:31 GMT
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Post by makv on Oct 6, 2016 10:25:46 GMT
How exactly is it in his interests not to allow the 4th stand to go ahead. I'm sure this has been discussed here and elsewhere, but I for one don't get it.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Oct 6, 2016 10:49:37 GMT
I know it is fairly obvious that Kassam doesn't give much of a stuff whether he is Mr Popular or not - but wouldn't it be more in his interests to be helpful to the club, especially if it costs him little or nothing? Presumably if we get to the championship he will get more rent off us, he will make more from the bars, could change more for the advertising, the food concessions etc?
It seems as if he is trying to screw every last penny out of the club in the short term without considering what might be the advantages to him in the (potentially) very near future. That says to me that far from being 'the custodian of the club' or even just being an astute businessman maximising his profits, he is actually and actively seeking the disadvantage of the club at every turn.
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Post by eighteen93 on Oct 6, 2016 10:57:37 GMT
I know it is fairly obvious that Kassam doesn't give much of a stuff whether he is Mr Popular or not - but wouldn't it be more in his interests to be helpful to the club, especially if it costs him little or nothing? Presumably if we get to the championship he will get more rent off us, he will make more from the bars, could change more for the advertising, the food concessions etc? It seems as if he is trying to screw every last penny out of the club in the short term without considering what might be the advantages to him in the (potentially) very near future. That says to me that far from being 'the custodian of the club' or even just being an astute businessman maximising his profits, he is actually and actively seeking the disadvantage of the club at every turn. Good post. He surely can't keep on saying "no comment" He is a PR disaster. The landlord from hell. I honestly believe he is trying to kill the club once and for all.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Oct 6, 2016 11:28:23 GMT
Others will probably know this for sure, and it may well have been brought up before, but I do believe that if the club get promoted to the Championship he is required to build a permanent fourth stand. I'm fairly sure that's a thing.
IF this is true, the next two or three years could be incredibly important. If he builds one he is almost certainly going to shove flats in the corners to not just cover the cost but make a profit on the construction, as well as increasing rent in the process which will then be in place forever more as you can't unbuild that stand. You're then in a position where it's virtually impossible for the club to ever get out of there and dropping down even one division again becomes financially problematic, and even if they did buy the ground those flats are there permanently. If he tells the council he's going to build dozens of properties as part of a new structure, they're not going to say no. They need all the help they can get in providing new places of occupancy. If he dangles that carrot then the council are going to side with him regardless of the consequences for the club.
I do genuinely believe, as it seems do others, that we are now in a positively crucial time for the football club. The next 24 months could define the next few decades, and if history should really have taught us anything, it's that Firoz Kassam will never rule out anything that benefits his wallet, nor will he give a second thought to anything that may happen to Oxford United.
As for the temporary fourth stand, I don't think he'all ever approve it nor do I think he's ever planned to at any point.
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Post by victor1986 on Oct 6, 2016 11:58:31 GMT
Others will probably know this for sure, and it may well have been brought up before, but I do believe that if the club get promoted to the Championship he is required to build a permanent fourth stand. I'm fairly sure that's a thing. IF this is true, the next two or three years could be incredibly important. If he builds one he is almost certainly going to shove flats in the corners to not just cover the cost but make a profit on the construction, as well as increasing rent in the process which will then be in place forever more as you can't unbuild that stand. You're then in a position where it's virtually impossible for the club to ever get out of there and dropping down even one division again becomes financially problematic, and even if they did buy the ground those flats are there permanently. If he tells the council he's going to build dozens of properties as part of a new structure, they're not going to say no. They need all the help they can get in providing new places of occupancy. If he dangles that carrot then the council are going to side with him regardless of the consequences for the club. I do genuinely believe, as it seems do others, that we are now in a positively crucial time for the football club. The next 24 months could define the next few decades, and if history should really have taught us anything, it's that Firoz Kassam will never rule out anything that benefits his wallet, nor will he give a second thought to anything that may happen to Oxford United. As for the temporary fourth stand, I don't think he'all ever approve it nor do I think he's ever planned to at any point. Not sure but I reckon Huddersfield played in the second tier with an "open" end for a season or two? This situation is crazy with Kasham - what about a suitably worded banner over the fence end for the Sky cameras to see this Sunday?
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 6, 2016 12:00:39 GMT
Others will probably know this for sure, and it may well have been brought up before, but I do believe that if the club get promoted to the Championship he is required to build a permanent fourth stand. I'm fairly sure that's a thing. IF this is true, the next two or three years could be incredibly important. If he builds one he is almost certainly going to shove flats in the corners to not just cover the cost but make a profit on the construction, as well as increasing rent in the process which will then be in place forever more as you can't unbuild that stand. You're then in a position where it's virtually impossible for the club to ever get out of there and dropping down even one division again becomes financially problematic, and even if they did buy the ground those flats are there permanently. If he tells the council he's going to build dozens of properties as part of a new structure, they're not going to say no. They need all the help they can get in providing new places of occupancy. If he dangles that carrot then the council are going to side with him regardless of the consequences for the club. I do genuinely believe, as it seems do others, that we are now in a positively crucial time for the football club. The next 24 months could define the next few decades, and if history should really have taught us anything, it's that Firoz Kassam will never rule out anything that benefits his wallet, nor will he give a second thought to anything that may happen to Oxford United. As for the temporary fourth stand, I don't think he'all ever approve it nor do I think he's ever planned to at any point. Agree with ur last sentence , and for the life of me can see why Oufc didn't get that permission in writing before even starting the process and spending time getting planning and such without knowing. Massive gamble that could have been sorted out day one with a yes or no
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Post by mcf86 on Oct 6, 2016 12:56:09 GMT
Others will probably know this for sure, and it may well have been brought up before, but I do believe that if the club get promoted to the Championship he is required to build a permanent fourth stand. I'm fairly sure that's a thing. IF this is true, the next two or three years could be incredibly important. If he builds one he is almost certainly going to shove flats in the corners to not just cover the cost but make a profit on the construction, as well as increasing rent in the process which will then be in place forever more as you can't unbuild that stand. You're then in a position where it's virtually impossible for the club to ever get out of there and dropping down even one division again becomes financially problematic, and even if they did buy the ground those flats are there permanently. If he tells the council he's going to build dozens of properties as part of a new structure, they're not going to say no. They need all the help they can get in providing new places of occupancy. If he dangles that carrot then the council are going to side with him regardless of the consequences for the club. I do genuinely believe, as it seems do others, that we are now in a positively crucial time for the football club. The next 24 months could define the next few decades, and if history should really have taught us anything, it's that Firoz Kassam will never rule out anything that benefits his wallet, nor will he give a second thought to anything that may happen to Oxford United. As for the temporary fourth stand, I don't think he'all ever approve it nor do I think he's ever planned to at any point. Agree with ur last sentence , and for the life of me can see why Oufc didn't get that permission in writing before even starting the process and spending time getting planning and such without knowing. Massive gamble that could have been sorted out day one with a yes or no Not convinced it could have, because 'we' are in the same position now -waiting for a yes or no. I get the feeling the OGB must be getting a kick out of toying with oufc, there's no other valid reason I can think of for his inertia. I too think it has got to the stage where all we as supporters have left is to demonstrate (Literally) our dismay and anger over what this leech is doing to our football club.
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 6, 2016 14:01:23 GMT
Agree with ur last sentence , and for the life of me can see why Oufc didn't get that permission in writing before even starting the process and spending time getting planning and such without knowing. Massive gamble that could have been sorted out day one with a yes or no Not convinced it could have, because 'we' are in the same position now -waiting for a yes or no. I get the feeling the OGB must be getting a kick out of toying with oufc, there's no other valid reason I can think of for his inertia. I too think it has got to the stage where all we as supporters have left is to demonstrate (Literally) our dismay and anger over what this leech is doing to our football club. But we would have been waiting for a yes or no without having spent nearly a year and probably a fair bIt of money in the process. First person u want to get permission to do something in a rented property - the owner.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Oct 6, 2016 14:25:12 GMT
I suspect we asked, he said 'I am not saying yes or no without seeing some plans and drawings - you do want to change my property after all. And I'm not sure you'll get planning permission anyway.' And NOW he is being a cock over it because he seems to have fallen out with the club. We all know what sort of person (I use the word loosely) he is - why are we surprised?!!
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Post by harrycarry on Oct 6, 2016 14:37:06 GMT
4th stand is a total waste of time and effort. Only one solution, buy the assets we need from Fizgogg.
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Post by McVicar on Oct 6, 2016 15:21:22 GMT
But, unless I've missed something, I don't get the line -
Eales said: “I’m working on the basis that unless Firoz has a change of heart then we’re stuck now.
a change of heart from what? We never got told how the talks went did we? Obviously the assumption is that he has refused us permission (for god know's what reason), but has that publicly been said?
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Post by Best Mate on Oct 6, 2016 15:30:43 GMT
Was just looking online to see what he owned - again thinking, perhaps the only way to get him out is to cost the man what he cares about most in the world, money. Google and found this article.... www.pearsonlongman.com/business/company/firoka.html What a shower of shit. I think the fans need to consider what can be done to affect the prick in the pocket AND then threaten to continue to do this until he agrees to do right by Oxford United. He has made his millions of the back of us. Got his developments. Now f*ck off and give us our ground back.
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Post by harrycarry on Oct 6, 2016 17:59:33 GMT
Was it ever 'our' ground? No it wasn't. We failed to retain our own ground the day we sold it for a quid. The only way back is to buy it again. Need a leader who can raise the funds.
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Post by Best Mate on Oct 6, 2016 19:50:21 GMT
True.
Though we did have a ground. The one he sold to himself for 6 million and then sold to the NHS for 12 million.....
I will rephrase it....we were a club with a ground...and now I would like that back. Even if it is 3 sided.....
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Post by uptheus on Oct 6, 2016 22:59:02 GMT
Not convinced it could have, because 'we' are in the same position now -waiting for a yes or no. I get the feeling the OGB must be getting a kick out of toying with oufc, there's no other valid reason I can think of for his inertia. I too think it has got to the stage where all we as supporters have left is to demonstrate (Literally) our dismay and anger over what this leech is doing to our football club. But we would have been waiting for a yes or no without having spent nearly a year and probably a fair bIt of money in the process. First person u want to get permission to do something in a rented property - the owner. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's obvious the club are highlighting the way Kassam is, and are actually making him look more of a c*nt than he already is. The sooner that c*nt has no connection with our football club the better. Well done Darryl.
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