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Post by pottersrightboot on Mar 2, 2016 7:36:15 GMT
That's not correct Mick. The entire committee voted in favour of doing the right to bid and the council did not want the application being public knowledge as it would potentially lead to press and community pressure on the decision. Everyone on the committee knew what was going in and were in favour and reviewed the application before it was submitted. Trevor was part of the committee when 12th man was created after the suggestion of one Roley!. Interesting that you edited your post Mark.
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Post by Mark Sennett on Mar 2, 2016 8:00:46 GMT
Prb - Bradders reminded me that the original idea was Roley's for beano fund but it was indeed you sir that suggested it became a wider fundraiser!
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Post by charliesghost on Mar 2, 2016 9:46:34 GMT
. In terms of transparency, your hilariously one-eyed view of history bears some inspection, rather than being taken as read. A previous OxVox chairman had to resign after having sensitive discussions 'off-line' with the then club chairman against the wishes of his committee. That chairman was not Mark Sennett. Do we really have to go into all the gory details? Maybe we do.... As for 'transparency', it is - and I'm sure will remain - a difficult issue for every chairman. The chairman has to decide whether or not it is in the best interests of OxVox/ the club/ the universe whether or not to share everything he gets told. There is a significant announcement upcoming from the club, which I'm told the current chairman is aware of. Has he shared it with his committee? Not that I'm aware. Should he have done so? Can't see the benefit of him doing so myself. But in the interests of the 'transparency' which you seem so concerned about, perhaps you would want him to. I note that you do not contest my point that very little has actually been DONE in the last eighteen months. This, to my mind, is not an insignificant point. I'd value your views on it. What actually is the point of this organisation? You have and do make excellent points Charlie. But why do you feel the need to allude to an announcement that's going to be made by the club? Surely that's down to the club to do, or have you become a spokesman for the club and is this the announcement that there is to be an announcement? Because I needed an example to demonstrate that 'transparency' is not as simple an issue as some seem to believe. No harm done, no confidential information leaked and - after all - the club makes announcements every week, don't they? Now, can someone please revert on what seems to me a very valid general question: what is the point of OxVox, a supporters trust that is part of the supporters trust movement. I have been on the SD website (the umbrella for supporters trusts) and that is pretty clear as what supporters trusts should be aiming to do. Likewise, on the Youth and Community Trust we neither are, nor are expected to be, cheerleaders for the football club. We're supposed to deliver a bit more value than that. Hence my question as to what has been achieved in the last eighteen months. I repeat: I have great admiration for Jeremy taking on the chairmanship at such logistical discomfort to himself. But he's not the only person on the committee - what has everyone else been doing?
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Post by eighteen93 on Mar 2, 2016 10:06:10 GMT
I bet Jem Faulkner is chuffed to bits with you Charlie!
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Post by bobsss on Mar 2, 2016 10:35:01 GMT
You have and do make excellent points Charlie. But why do you feel the need to allude to an announcement that's going to be made by the club? Surely that's down to the club to do, or have you become a spokesman for the club and is this the announcement that there is to be an announcement? Because I needed an example to demonstrate that 'transparency' is not as simple an issue as some seem to believe. No harm done, no confidential information leaked and - after all - the club makes announcements every week, don't they? Now, can someone please revert on what seems to me a very valid general question: what is the point of OxVox, a supporters trust that is part of the supporters trust movement. I have been on the SD website (the umbrella for supporters trusts) and that is pretty clear as what supporters trusts should be aiming to do. Likewise, on the Youth and Community Trust we neither are, nor are expected to be, cheerleaders for the football club. We're supposed to deliver a bit more value than that. Hence my question as to what has been achieved in the last eighteen months. I repeat: I have great admiration for Jeremy taking on the chairmanship at such logistical discomfort to himself. But he's not the only person on the committee - what has everyone else been doing? Maybe a spot of counselling might help you and your friend Charlie...........probably too late........it might be more expedient to send in the men in white coats before the pair of you really run amok.
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Post by Maurice Earp on Mar 2, 2016 10:36:34 GMT
That's not correct Mick. The entire committee voted in favour of doing the right to bid and the council did not want the application being public knowledge as it would potentially lead to press and community pressure on the decision. Everyone on the committee knew what was going in and were in favour and reviewed the application before it was submitted. Trevor was part of the committee when 12th man was created after the suggestion of one Roley!. As a committee member at the time of CRTB I can confirm that all committee members were aware & in favour of the bid I understand that certain posters on this forum will not believe this but there you go.
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Post by Maurice Earp on Mar 2, 2016 10:40:14 GMT
OxVox created and then administered the 12th man for the first two/three years of its existence where the vast majority is of the funds raised so effectively they were one and the same at that period What Mark has stated is true.
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Post by essexyellows on Mar 2, 2016 18:41:03 GMT
You have and do make excellent points Charlie. But why do you feel the need to allude to an announcement that's going to be made by the club? Surely that's down to the club to do, or have you become a spokesman for the club and is this the announcement that there is to be an announcement? Because I needed an example to demonstrate that 'transparency' is not as simple an issue as some seem to believe. No harm done, no confidential information leaked and - after all - the club makes announcements every week, don't they? Now, can someone please revert on what seems to me a very valid general question: what is the point of OxVox, a supporters trust that is part of the supporters trust movement. I have been on the SD website (the umbrella for supporters trusts) and that is pretty clear as what supporters trusts should be aiming to do. Likewise, on the Youth and Community Trust we neither are, nor are expected to be, cheerleaders for the football club. We're supposed to deliver a bit more value than that. Hence my question as to what has been achieved in the last eighteen months. I repeat: I have great admiration for Jeremy taking on the chairmanship at such logistical discomfort to himself. But he's not the only person on the committee - what has everyone else been doing? Maybe the majority of members are happy with what has been done? There seems to be a much more fluid relationship with the club, I doubt that is down to one person. Website & social media alongside membership communication has improved greatly. Membership has increased. In fact they appear to have hit all the targets on the website. We would do well to remember that they are volunteers who probably have lives, jobs etc and that such volunteers are very,very difficult to find and the last thing they need is for some bitter individual who didn`t get what he wanted berating them for "not doing enough".
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Post by oufcyellows on Mar 2, 2016 18:44:56 GMT
Isn't membership now at and all time high? Surely that says as more about the way it's being run, than the amount of events being organised
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Post by charliesghost on Mar 2, 2016 19:26:09 GMT
Because I needed an example to demonstrate that 'transparency' is not as simple an issue as some seem to believe. No harm done, no confidential information leaked and - after all - the club makes announcements every week, don't they? Now, can someone please revert on what seems to me a very valid general question: what is the point of OxVox, a supporters trust that is part of the supporters trust movement. I have been on the SD website (the umbrella for supporters trusts) and that is pretty clear as what supporters trusts should be aiming to do. Likewise, on the Youth and Community Trust we neither are, nor are expected to be, cheerleaders for the football club. We're supposed to deliver a bit more value than that. Hence my question as to what has been achieved in the last eighteen months. I repeat: I have great admiration for Jeremy taking on the chairmanship at such logistical discomfort to himself. But he's not the only person on the committee - what has everyone else been doing? Maybe the majority of members are happy with what has been done? There seems to be a much more fluid relationship with the club, I doubt that is down to one person. Website & social media alongside membership communication has improved greatly. Membership has increased. In fact they appear to have hit all the targets on the website. We would do well to remember that they are volunteers who probably have lives, jobs etc and that such volunteers are very,very difficult to find and the last thing they need is for some bitter individual who didn`t get what he wanted berating them for "not doing enough". Why so angry, feller? I am posing a question, not making a criticism. And I am very far from bitter about anything to do with OxVox, an organisation I have long been a member of, have sat on the committee of and helped raise money for. I have as much a right to a say as anyone, thank'ee. To take your points one by one: 1. "there appears to be a more fluid relationship with the club" - I don't understand this point about 'fluidity', nor understand why OxVox's 'relationship with the club' is any kind of end unto itself. From memory, Trevor had a good working relationship with Kelvin, and Sennett with Ian Lenagan, and now Jem with Darryl. So what? I wouldn't be worried if the head of OxVox and the club's owner weren't best buddies. This shouldn't be about personalities, but issues. 2. I am in the PR business, so am hugely delighted when people think that PR is the whole point of something. But a little bit of even me questions whether that should be the case, even when I'm being paid to do it for others. Surely the key issue is whether you have anything worthwhile to communicate. 3. I am not 'berating' anyone. You are. I have asked a couple of questions. You have (sort of) answered one of them along the lines that I thought someone eventually would. A PR machine isn't MY idea of a great supporters trust - a supporters organisation like the Yellow Army, yes, but not a Trust - but you're absolutely right that if that is what others want then that is what they shall get. That is the nature of a members voting organisation. 4. Like all of them, I am a volunteer. I've shaken buckets for OxVox and the Yellow Army and - going back a way - for FOUL and all the rest. I'm a volunteer on the YCT. But I think that when you put yourself forward for election you are implicitly saying that you are actually planning to do stuff. Way back when, I resigned from the committee because I was moving to London and couldn't commit the time. It may well be that various members of the current committee have been in a similar situation. So it is not a moral judgement, just a question as to whether people putting themselves forward are actually going to do something. 5. The final point is an ideological one. Some of us believe in OxVox as part of the supporters trust movement - which is meant to take an independent, long-term view of its club's sustainability and work to improve that situation where possible. Others, I think, see it more as a semi-formal way of finding stuff out from the club a bit quicker than would otherwise be the case. These are not entirely contradictory views, but there are different emphases. And I think it as well that we know what we are voting for, not in terms of people but what they believe about the trust. In conclusion, this doesn't have to be as nasty as you are trying to make it. I can be a personal admirer of someone who doesn't agree with me on everything. And I might think that someone is a bit of a dipstick on a personal level, but still agree with him/ her on the issues. It's the basis of democracy that people should be allowed to have their say, and have their vote, without getting abuse for it.
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Post by essexyellows on Mar 2, 2016 19:50:34 GMT
I`m not in PR & have a tendency to "say what I see".
Maybe you could highlight/list/bullet point what you expect the committee to do that you seem to think they haven`t?
PS: You are not alone with having shaken buckets for FOUL etc, likewise I believe a strong Supporters Trust (working with whoever is currently in charge) is vital to lower league clubs.
There is only one constant at a football club and thats us mugs who buy the tickets!
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Post by oufcyellows on Mar 2, 2016 19:57:39 GMT
Maybe the majority of members are happy with what has been done? There seems to be a much more fluid relationship with the club, I doubt that is down to one person. Website & social media alongside membership communication has improved greatly. Membership has increased. In fact they appear to have hit all the targets on the website. We would do well to remember that they are volunteers who probably have lives, jobs etc and that such volunteers are very,very difficult to find and the last thing they need is for some bitter individual who didn`t get what he wanted berating them for "not doing enough". Why so angry, feller? I am posing a question, not making a criticism. And I am very far from bitter about anything to do with OxVox, an organisation I have long been a member of, have sat on the committee of and helped raise money for. I have as much a right to a say as anyone, thank'ee. To take your points one by one: 1. "there appears to be a more fluid relationship with the club" - I don't understand this point about 'fluidity', nor understand why OxVox's 'relationship with the club' is any kind of end unto itself. From memory, Trevor had a good working relationship with Kelvin, and Sennett with Ian Lenagan, and now Jem with Darryl. So what? I wouldn't be worried if the head of OxVox and the club's owner weren't best buddies. This shouldn't be about personalities, but issues. 2. I am in the PR business, so am hugely delighted when people think that PR is the whole point of something. But a little bit of even me questions whether that should be the case, even when I'm being paid to do it for others. Surely the key issue is whether you have anything worthwhile to communicate. 3. I am not 'berating' anyone. You are. I have asked a couple of questions. You have (sort of) answered one of them along the lines that I thought someone eventually would. A PR machine isn't MY idea of a great supporters trust - a supporters organisation like the Yellow Army, yes, but not a Trust - but you're absolutely right that if that is what others want then that is what they shall get. That is the nature of a members voting organisation. 4. Like all of them, I am a volunteer. I've shaken buckets for OxVox and the Yellow Army and - going back a way - for FOUL and all the rest. I'm a volunteer on the YCT. But I think that when you put yourself forward for election you are implicitly saying that you are actually planning to do stuff. Way back when, I resigned from the committee because I was moving to London and couldn't commit the time. It may well be that various members of the current committee have been in a similar situation. So it is not a moral judgement, just a question as to whether people putting themselves forward are actually going to do something. 5. The final point is an ideological one. Some of us believe in OxVox as part of the supporters trust movement - which is meant to take an independent, long-term view of its club's sustainability and work to improve that situation where possible. Others, I think, see it more as a semi-formal way of finding stuff out from the club a bit quicker than would otherwise be the case. These are not entirely contradictory views, but there are different emphases. And I think it as well that we know what we are voting for, not in terms of people but what they believe about the trust. In conclusion, this doesn't have to be as nasty as you are trying to make it. I can be a personal admirer of someone who doesn't agree with me on everything. And I might think that someone is a bit of a dipstick on a personal level, but still agree with him/ her on the issues. It's the basis of democracy that people should be allowed to have their say, and have their vote, without getting abuse for it. I don't agree with u on everything, I know u think I'm a dipstick. But personal admirer , I'm touched love u Charles
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Post by charliesghost on Mar 2, 2016 20:50:54 GMT
Why so angry, feller? I am posing a question, not making a criticism. And I am very far from bitter about anything to do with OxVox, an organisation I have long been a member of, have sat on the committee of and helped raise money for. I have as much a right to a say as anyone, thank'ee. To take your points one by one: 1. "there appears to be a more fluid relationship with the club" - I don't understand this point about 'fluidity', nor understand why OxVox's 'relationship with the club' is any kind of end unto itself. From memory, Trevor had a good working relationship with Kelvin, and Sennett with Ian Lenagan, and now Jem with Darryl. So what? I wouldn't be worried if the head of OxVox and the club's owner weren't best buddies. This shouldn't be about personalities, but issues. 2. I am in the PR business, so am hugely delighted when people think that PR is the whole point of something. But a little bit of even me questions whether that should be the case, even when I'm being paid to do it for others. Surely the key issue is whether you have anything worthwhile to communicate. 3. I am not 'berating' anyone. You are. I have asked a couple of questions. You have (sort of) answered one of them along the lines that I thought someone eventually would. A PR machine isn't MY idea of a great supporters trust - a supporters organisation like the Yellow Army, yes, but not a Trust - but you're absolutely right that if that is what others want then that is what they shall get. That is the nature of a members voting organisation. 4. Like all of them, I am a volunteer. I've shaken buckets for OxVox and the Yellow Army and - going back a way - for FOUL and all the rest. I'm a volunteer on the YCT. But I think that when you put yourself forward for election you are implicitly saying that you are actually planning to do stuff. Way back when, I resigned from the committee because I was moving to London and couldn't commit the time. It may well be that various members of the current committee have been in a similar situation. So it is not a moral judgement, just a question as to whether people putting themselves forward are actually going to do something. 5. The final point is an ideological one. Some of us believe in OxVox as part of the supporters trust movement - which is meant to take an independent, long-term view of its club's sustainability and work to improve that situation where possible. Others, I think, see it more as a semi-formal way of finding stuff out from the club a bit quicker than would otherwise be the case. These are not entirely contradictory views, but there are different emphases. And I think it as well that we know what we are voting for, not in terms of people but what they believe about the trust. In conclusion, this doesn't have to be as nasty as you are trying to make it. I can be a personal admirer of someone who doesn't agree with me on everything. And I might think that someone is a bit of a dipstick on a personal level, but still agree with him/ her on the issues. It's the basis of democracy that people should be allowed to have their say, and have their vote, without getting abuse for it. I don't agree with u on everything, I know u think I'm a dipstick. But personal admirer , I'm touched love u Charles I thought that we both agreed last year that we loved each other! And that all that dipstick stuff on both sides was just a 'misunderstanding' to do with Micky Adams getting on the Positive Bus and then not paying his fare?
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Post by Jem on Mar 2, 2016 23:06:05 GMT
Hi all
Blimey, I've had so many mentions, that if this was Twitter, I'd be 'trending'! Lol!
Just wanted to let everyone know that we're not ignoring the posts/comments being made.
At the start of the election process, the Committee agreed that we would stay away from posting directly until after the AGM. This we felt, during what might be an emotive period, would be the professional thing to do.
The tone of some of the comments in this thread are a little disappointing, but rest assured that the points raised will be covered through the OxVox Annual Performance Report, which will be presented at the AGM on the 12th March.
Cheers!
Jem
COYY's!
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Post by sm86 on Mar 3, 2016 8:39:23 GMT
Hi all Blimey, I've had so many mentions, that if this was Twitter, I'd be 'trending'! Lol! Just wanted to let everyone know that we're not ignoring the posts/comments being made. At the start of the election process, the Committee agreed that we would stay away from posting directly until after the AGM. This we felt, during what might be an emotive period, would be the professional thing to do. The tone of some of the comments in this thread are a little disappointing, but rest assured that the points raised will be covered through the OxVox Annual Performance Report, which will be presented at the AGM on the 12th March. Cheers! Jem COYY's! Thanks for the post Jem, Keep up the great work. As someone has already stated membership is at an all time high since you took over.
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Post by stevewilliams on Mar 3, 2016 9:27:27 GMT
some interesting things said and some good candidates be good if squabbling could stop for once I agree with charliesghost supporters groups should be independent and have lots of different views getting our hands on the kas stad or anywhere else is so important if we want money to keep pushing up the leagues. good luck to all involved
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Post by londonroader on Mar 3, 2016 10:44:20 GMT
some interesting things said and some good candidates be good if squabbling could stop for once I agree with charliesghost supporters groups should be independent and have lots of different views getting our hands on the kas stad or anywhere else is so important if we want money to keep pushing up the leagues. good luck to all involved Tut tut Stooping a bit low using a multi account to back up your view point.
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Post by charliesghost on Mar 3, 2016 11:20:01 GMT
Hi all Blimey, I've had so many mentions, that if this was Twitter, I'd be 'trending'! Lol! Just wanted to let everyone know that we're not ignoring the posts/comments being made. At the start of the election process, the Committee agreed that we would stay away from posting directly until after the AGM. This we felt, during what might be an emotive period, would be the professional thing to do. The tone of some of the comments in this thread are a little disappointing, but rest assured that the points raised will be covered through the OxVox Annual Performance Report, which will be presented at the AGM on the 12th March. Cheers! Jem COYY's! Is it the 'tone' of some of the comments that are disappointing you, Jem, or the content that is upsetting you? I only ask because most of the posts on this thread with an overtly aggressive and personalised 'tone' have thoroughly supported the work of the current committee. Whereas I and a couple of others have rather courteously - and very respectfully to you - suggested that the Trust may be able to do a few more concrete things. I sincerely hope that OxVox, as an organisation, is strong enough to tolerate at least a little debate and honest difference of opinion. Over-sensitivity, in my experience, is rarely the sign of a strong and healthy entity.
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Post by oufcyellows on Mar 3, 2016 12:23:26 GMT
Did u miss the bit , where he said they won't be commenting directly until after the agm
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Post by sm86 on Mar 3, 2016 13:25:35 GMT
What I don't understand is why people are needing to create a debate/argue on this when they have the right to vote.
The facts are Oxvox membership is at an all time high and were supporting a club that is 2nd in the league and going to Wembley.
I vote, we cancel the vote as things on and off the pitch are going great. No need to change it...
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Post by m on Mar 3, 2016 13:29:10 GMT
What I don't understand is why people are need to create a debate/agreement on this when they have the right to vote. Who started the thread?
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Post by sm86 on Mar 3, 2016 13:37:54 GMT
What I don't understand is why people are need to create a debate/agreement on this when they have the right to vote. Who started the thread? With the aim of it being positive and supportive..
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Post by oufcyellows on Mar 3, 2016 13:43:43 GMT
And most of the replies are! Only some want to turn it personal. the candidates have given their reasons why they should be voted for . We have the choice, Charlie can give his view but it doesn't mean it's right or anyone has to listen to it. Base your votes on what u think and not what others tell u. Then u can do the positive thing
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Post by charliesghost on Mar 3, 2016 15:19:30 GMT
What I don't understand is why people are needing to create a debate/argue on this when they have the right to vote. The facts are Oxvox membership is at an all time high and were supporting a club that is 2nd in the league and going to Wembley. I vote, we cancel the vote as things on and off the pitch are going great. No need to change it... You're right, of course. I shall call my friends in the media and inform them that there is no point in debating exit from the European Union because people "have a vote so what's the point" All this coverage of the US elections too must be very disturbing for you, too. After all, they've got a vote so why bother even questioning Trump and co. Just shut the f*ck up, guys! I have actually worked around some countries where there is no debate before 'people have a vote", because "everything's great as it is". You know, it's those countries where the president generally gets elected with 99% support. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, those sorts of places. So aiming for a lack of debate pre election is an interesting point of view, but not exactly mainstream outside of the former Soviet Union and sub-Saharan Africa!
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Post by m on Mar 3, 2016 15:26:35 GMT
With the aim of it being positive and supportive.. Yeah, I get that. It's a bit rich to offer your opinions and then criticise others for doing the same though.
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Post by whingit on Mar 3, 2016 15:27:26 GMT
I hear Andrew Neil is chairing the live OxVox debate on BBC2 next week.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 16:33:01 GMT
What I don't understand is why people are needing to create a debate/argue on this when they have the right to vote. The facts are Oxvox membership is at an all time high and were supporting a club that is 2nd in the league and going to Wembley. I vote, we cancel the vote as things on and off the pitch are going great. No need to change it... You're right, of course. I shall call my friends in the media and inform them that there is no point in debating exit from the European Union because people "have a vote so what's the point" All this coverage of the US elections too must be very disturbing for you, too. After all, they've got a vote so why bother even questioning Trump and co. Just shut the f*ck up, guys! I have actually worked around some countries where there is no debate before 'people have a vote", because "everything's great as it is". You know, it's those countries where the president generally gets elected with 99% support. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, those sorts of places. So aiming for a lack of debate pre election is an interesting point of view, but not exactly mainstream outside of the former Soviet Union and sub-Saharan Africa! Had to google that, wasn't aware that was Belarus's former name. Learn a few things reading your post's I must admit.
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Post by sm86 on Mar 3, 2016 17:31:26 GMT
What I don't understand is why people are needing to create a debate/argue on this when they have the right to vote. The facts are Oxvox membership is at an all time high and were supporting a club that is 2nd in the league and going to Wembley. I vote, we cancel the vote as things on and off the pitch are going great. No need to change it... You're right, of course. I shall call my friends in the media and inform them that there is no point in debating exit from the European Union because people "have a vote so what's the point" All this coverage of the US elections too must be very disturbing for you, too. After all, they've got a vote so why bother even questioning Trump and co. Just shut the f*ck up, guys! I have actually worked around some countries where there is no debate before 'people have a vote", because "everything's great as it is". You know, it's those countries where the president generally gets elected with 99% support. Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Byelorussia, those sorts of places. So aiming for a lack of debate pre election is an interesting point of view, but not exactly mainstream outside of the former Soviet Union and sub-Saharan Africa! Ha ha, have you really just compared voting for the new members of Oxvox to us leaving the EU or not....
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Post by Mark on Mar 3, 2016 17:36:37 GMT
I don't think I'm a member anymore, but it's intriguing how many people have put themselves forward this year, when in many years Oxvox has just re-elected the committee who weren't retiring by rotation. Also I wonder what the coming announcement is? I did get a little excited when I got a story link to Oxford, United connected with BMW's 100th birthday this Monday... www.bmwblog.com/2016/03/02/bmw-history-100-facts-100-years/
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Post by essexyellows on Mar 3, 2016 17:47:05 GMT
Your excited Slappy? I`m still waiting for Charlie`s "list of things he thinks the committee should have done in the last year". Sadly Jem`s interjection that Oxvox will be updating what they have done probably cooled the water a bit. Or he has me on ignore.
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