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Post by bacon on Sept 7, 2014 20:49:29 GMT
It's embarrassing the amount of posts on here and Twitter slating LW. They're sharing with us, deal with it
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 20:54:05 GMT
It's embarrassing the amount of posts on here and Twitter slating LW. They're sharing with us, deal with it Ah, the old deal with it argument. We should have meekly 'dealt with it' when Maxwell tried to merge us with Reading. I may never be able to do anything about them, but I will never accept it unless it benefits OUFC.
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Post by Colin B on Sept 7, 2014 20:55:26 GMT
It's embarrassing the amount of posts on here and Twitter slating LW. They're sharing with us, deal with it Ah, the old deal with it argument. We should have meekly 'dealt with it' when Maxwell tried to merge us with Reading. I may never be able to do anything about them, but I will never accept it unless it benefits OUFC. Agree. Good post.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 7, 2014 20:55:49 GMT
It's embarrassing the amount of posts on here and Twitter slating LW. They're sharing with us, deal with it Ah, the old deal with it argument. We should have meekly 'dealt with it' when Maxwell tried to merge us with Reading. I may never be able to do anything about them, but I will never accept it unless it benefits OUFC. Exactly. At the min we gain nothing from having them , if at some point were talking about oufc benefiting by 300k a year my view will most likely be different
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Post by upthecowboys on Sept 7, 2014 21:01:46 GMT
It is not our ground, we are simply lodgers..we pay rent. If Stadco have agreed to put up London Welsh logos then what can Oxvox do about it? There are far more important issues for Oxvox to be looking in to than this. Great. When they ask for your views (assume you're a member) you can tell them precisely that. Yes I am an oxvox and if asked will tell them that. In the ideal world there would not be London welsh signage..agreed. But in the scheme of things some London Welsh signage is pretty irrelevant at the moment. We are both tenants at the stadium, and there are much bigger issues that Oxvox need to be asking questions about at present..
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Post by Junior on Sept 7, 2014 21:14:55 GMT
It's embarrassing the amount of posts on here and Twitter slating LW. They're sharing with us, deal with it Ah, the old deal with it argument. We should have meekly 'dealt with it' when Maxwell tried to merge us with Reading. I may never be able to do anything about them, but I will never accept it unless it benefits OUFC. Happy to be corrected on this but didn't someone connected with Oxford ( either Lenagan's or Oxvox ) say that having LW sharing the stadium had made it easier to deal with Kassam?
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Post by bacon on Sept 7, 2014 21:29:33 GMT
It's embarrassing the amount of posts on here and Twitter slating LW. They're sharing with us, deal with it Ah, the old deal with it argument. We should have meekly 'dealt with it' when Maxwell tried to merge us with Reading. I may never be able to do anything about them, but I will never accept it unless it benefits OUFC. because someone trying to merge our club with one of our rivals is the same as ground sharing with another team that plays a different sport, isn't it? We all hate the Kassam stadium, we don't own it and yet some are getting sand in their knickers about sharing with a rugby team. The pitch thing is pathetic too, I wasn't watching football in the 60's/70's/80's but I can't imagine many were whinging about the pitches back then. It's the same for both teams
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 22:42:51 GMT
It is not our ground, we are simply lodgers..we pay rent. If Stadco have agreed to put up London Welsh logos then what can Oxvox do about it? There are far more important issues for Oxvox to be looking in to than this. [br Except we want to buy the stadium to make us a going concern, and their 300k rent to kassam drives up his yield, and hence the asking price by about 40%. So it does cause us a small pickle. That and the new management want to play football, which come December will be impossible on that pitch and our tweeny passers will get battered.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 22:45:06 GMT
Mark/Simon You often write/say that OV exists to represent its members and in many ways the wider OUFC support base. Once I'd hauled myself up from the floor from seeing the London Welsh signage on the stadium, it occurred to me that I didn't recall ever being asked for views on the LW issue. I'd like you to seek the views of the membership in regard to them, their tenure in a stadium that is morally ours, their sponsors, their insurgence into the community and the growing and unwelcome coverage in the media ( Radio Oxford just cannot give them enough airtime). Perhaps I'm just a miserable git but I'd venture that the resentment is growing and we should start to act. To me it feels like we've not lifted a finger to make them think twice about continuing their Cuckoo act in Oxford. The crowd today demonstrates that the interest is minimal. No one cares and I think we should be stepping up our activity to see them return to London.
Where is this? If its temporary and only used on match day then I can forgive it maybe but if its permanent then I would be gutted.
We may not own our dump of a stadium but as far as im concerned its still OURS
Having London Welsh share really irritates me, especially as I cant think of any gains to our football club.
You can be gutted. It's permanent from the cuckoo welsh
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 8, 2014 5:39:28 GMT
It is not our ground, we are simply lodgers..we pay rent. If Stadco have agreed to put up London Welsh logos then what can Oxvox do about it? There are far more important issues for Oxvox to be looking in to than this. [br Except we want to buy the stadium to make us a going concern, and their 300k rent to kassam drives up his yield, and hence the asking price by about 40%. So it does cause us a small pickle. That and the new management want to play football, which come December will be impossible on that pitch and our tweeny passers will get battered. Don't think it does mate. If we offered him the 12-13m price that has always been asked for, the ground would be ours. It's the fact that's it's market value is more like 6m that's the problem not that it has other tenants
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 7:44:26 GMT
[br Except we want to buy the stadium to make us a going concern, and their 300k rent to kassam drives up his yield, and hence the asking price by about 40%. So it does cause us a small pickle. That and the new management want to play football, which come December will be impossible on that pitch and our tweeny passers will get battered. Don't think it does mate. If we offered him the 12-13m price that has always been asked for, the ground would be ours. It's the fact that's it's market value is more like 6m that's the problem not that it has other tenants Strongly disagree. Yield siginificsbtly impacts the asking price of property and will do so in this case too. If you were getting 10% yield rather than 5%, why would you sell to then invest that cash in 5% opportunity elsewhere. The deal would have to be much better. Please don't underestimate for one moment what a major spanner in the works any secondary enterprise at the stadium is.
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Post by Junior on Sept 8, 2014 7:56:10 GMT
Can he do that? I mean, wasn't a fixed price agreed with Kassam? If not what's stopping us attempting to renegotiate the contract that has us over a barrel at the present time?
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Post by upthecowboys on Sept 8, 2014 7:58:29 GMT
It is not our ground, we are simply lodgers..we pay rent. If Stadco have agreed to put up London Welsh logos then what can Oxvox do about it? There are far more important issues for Oxvox to be looking in to than this. [br Except we want to buy the stadium to make us a going concern, and their 300k rent to kassam drives up his yield, and hence the asking price by about 40%. So it does cause us a small pickle. That and the new management want to play football, which come December will be impossible on that pitch and our tweeny passers will get battered. Whether there are London Welsh signs up or not, they'll be paying their rent to Kassam driving up his yield and the asking price. Whether there are London Welsh signs up or not, they'll be playing Rugby on that pitch and it will deteriorate. Appleton needs a different approach for playing on poor pitches, be it at the Kassam or elsewhere. Would I prefer there not to be London Welsh signs up, yes. But struggle to see what Oxvox can do about it, think there are other more pressing matters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 7:59:21 GMT
I've never seen the contract but my understanding is that we have a fixed term 25 year agreement.
The price if the stadium is bit captured in that contract and the previous figure of 12-13m only come from negotiations that have taken place and what he has asked for. As such that price is what he valued it at pre welsh. He will now obviously feel that it is worth more to him.
Rock and hard place.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 8:03:32 GMT
[br Except we want to buy the stadium to make us a going concern, and their 300k rent to kassam drives up his yield, and hence the asking price by about 40%. So it does cause us a small pickle. That and the new management want to play football, which come December will be impossible on that pitch and our tweeny passers will get battered. Whether there are London Welsh signs up or not, they'll be paying their rent to Kassam driving up his yield and the asking price. Whether there are London Welsh signs up or not, they'll be playing Rugby on that pitch and it will deteriorate. Appleton needs a different approach for playing on poor pitches, be it at the Kassam or elsewhere. Would I prefer there not to be London Welsh signs up, yes. But struggle to see what Oxvox can do about it, think there are other more pressing matters. I read the original post as going beyond the signage and being the overall issue of welsh. Don't disagree that the signs, although annoying, are the smallest of our many woes What's your dad think? ;-)
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Post by bristoloxman on Sept 8, 2014 8:03:53 GMT
Does any one have any knowledge on how one would even value the stadium? Surely it would be valued on a profits based method of valuation, where the value is determined by what can be generated from its use? Also if we are paying 300k per year for it, over 25 years that's 7.5m. ( and we know this is unsustainable) It's not worth 15m, which I believe is what FK wants? It's a shame IL couldn't have got the head lease in a way which would allow us control to sub let to LW, and cover most of our rental costs. FK wouldn't have a problem with us both leaving the stadium redundant as it would then force it to become houses. In the mean time he can continue to get double rent.
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Post by scotters on Sept 8, 2014 8:05:45 GMT
It works both ways surely - if the yield from an extra tenant drives the price up, then it also means that if/when a new owner takes over they'll have more income from the stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 8:11:34 GMT
It works both ways surely - if the yield from an extra tenant drives the price up, then it also means that if/when a new owner takes over they'll have more income from the stadium. Agreed but that relies on two things: 1 obtaining access to all that extra capital up front 2 being certain that you can secure the welsh on the same deal , given that they then know you're partially reliant on income from them. It's adds a complexity in an already difficult circus trick and assumes we can raise that capital. And if they get relegated / go bust we are then very highly leveraged
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Post by trolleysnatcha on Sept 8, 2014 8:46:01 GMT
Doesn't matter if it's our spiritual home or whatever. We don't own the ground so we don't have a say. I don't understand why some people are getting angry about signs etc and London Welsh's crowd.
Sent from my HTC One using proboards
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Post by Matt D on Sept 8, 2014 12:19:09 GMT
Mark/Simon You often write/say that OV exists to represent its members and in many ways the wider OUFC support base. Once I'd hauled myself up from the floor from seeing the London Welsh signage on the stadium, it occurred to me that I didn't recall ever being asked for views on the LW issue. I'd like you to seek the views of the membership in regard to them, their tenure in a stadium that is morally ours, their sponsors, their insurgence into the community and the growing and unwelcome coverage in the media ( Radio Oxford just cannot give them enough airtime). Hi oxfordyankee - OxVox members were surveyed about the arrival on LWRFC when they first pitched up (see oxvox.org.uk/news.aspx?id=372). Now that they've been here for a while, it would be interesting to see what OxVox members' feelings are. We'll need a set of neutral questions. We can ask a similar one to the one we asked two years' ago ('What effect do you think they have had?'). Any other suggestions (or anyone else)? Perhaps I'm just a miserable git but I'd venture that the resentment is growing and we should start to act. To me it feels like we've not lifted a finger to make them think twice about continuing their Cuckoo act in Oxford. The crowd today demonstrates that the interest is minimal. No one cares and I think we should be stepping up our activity to see them return to London. Of course, there's a difference between peoples' feelings about the presence of LWRFC and whether they think anything/what they think should be done. If you were to put that kind of question to members, you'd need to make clear what kind of action you're talking about. What do you have in mind?
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Post by bicesterox on Sept 8, 2014 13:18:23 GMT
I think the big problem is no one in London wants them either and Rugby Premiership rules say their own ground is not up to standard for that competition.
You'd think they could share with Brentford or Fulham, QPR pitch is probably too small for the end zone or whatever its called.
Maybe they should go to Upton Park when the Hammers move to the Olympic Stadium :-)
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Post by grb on Sept 8, 2014 15:40:11 GMT
From tweets I was reading on Twitter yesterday LW appear to be very unpopular with many rugby fans around the country. I hope they f*ck off as soon as possible!
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Post by stevegilbert on Sept 8, 2014 20:31:51 GMT
From tweets I was reading on Twitter yesterday LW appear to be very unpopular with many rugby fans around the country. I hope they f*ck off as soon as possible! What is the particular issues other rugby fans have with them?
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 8, 2014 20:34:10 GMT
From tweets I was reading on Twitter yesterday LW appear to be very unpopular with many rugby fans around the country. I hope they f*ck off as soon as possible! What is the particular issues other rugby fans have with them? Similar to mk dons
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Post by Junior on Sept 8, 2014 20:48:52 GMT
You sure that's the reason? A few other clubs have relocated. Can think of Wasps, London Irish, Saracens off the top of my head.
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Post by bicesteryellow on Sept 8, 2014 20:50:43 GMT
He's 12 but 6ft 3ins? I'm staying out of your way then! I went down to the club last week but I may think again in future... Dont worry. I'm only about 5ft 8 or 9 He takes after his great grandad, not me Not as worried then. Still very tall. I bet that makes him cheap to operate
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Post by bicesteryellow on Sept 8, 2014 20:52:12 GMT
I can't be the only one who couldn't give a flying toss...
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Post by stevegilbert on Sept 8, 2014 21:19:01 GMT
I can't be the only one who couldn't give a flying toss... Nope, I don't see the big problem apart from the pitch needing a bit more TLC. It is common sense to make use of a stadium that is only used for roughly 20 weekends of the year. A lot of clubs utilise their grounds these days and share with rugby or even other football teams. We have the RTB on the Kassam so it isn't even like they can just buy the ground from under our noses.
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Post by nickcusack on Sept 9, 2014 7:53:10 GMT
Mark/Simon You often write/say that OV exists to represent its members and in many ways the wider OUFC support base. Once I'd hauled myself up from the floor from seeing the London Welsh signage on the stadium, it occurred to me that I didn't recall ever being asked for views on the LW issue. I'd like you to seek the views of the membership in regard to them, their tenure in a stadium that is morally ours, their sponsors, their insurgence into the community and the growing and unwelcome coverage in the media ( Radio Oxford just cannot give them enough airtime). Perhaps I'm just a miserable git but I'd venture that the resentment is growing and we should start to act. To me it feels like we've not lifted a finger to make them think twice about continuing their Cuckoo act in Oxford. The crowd today demonstrates that the interest is minimal. No one cares and I think we should be stepping up our activity to see them return to London. Like yourself, and many other OUFC supporters, I would love for LW to find an alternative home as I feel this season more than any we could really feel their impact. It is clear that MAPP wants a crisp attacking passing game, which is attainable now however come January with the winter weather coupled with numerous games of rugby will make this philosophy very difficult to achieve. Anyhow, with regards to LW I echo some of the other comments on this thread in that instead of pressing questions on LW use of the stadium, I, you, OxVox really need to be pressing Eales and Ashton on the viability of OUFC purchasing the ground. Only when the football club owns the ground can we then decide what LW can and can’t do. It was the 4th July the new owners entered OUFC and we were told at the time from the previous owner it was done so because of changing regulations in the planning landscape for Oxfordshire in the next 12 months presented an opportunity for OUFC to own its own stadium. Over two months later and all we have heard is that the new owners have said hello to FK in a lift and had a coffee with him. I fully appreciate that more may have gone on behind the scenes that we are aware off however to me, this doesn't seem like grasping this ‘opportunity’ with both hands. Linking the above to the thread, don’t you think its these questions that should be put forward to OxVox and not about a sign that LW have erected for one day of the week at a ground that, currently, we don’t own?
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Post by gottagetbetta on Sept 9, 2014 8:36:54 GMT
did I read somewhere that they signed 25 new players for the coming season. The crowd at the weekend was sub 3,000. Someones maths are shortly going to start coming apart. How can London Welsh continue to stay at the stadium with can kind of support base? I want to see the back of them as soon as possible and economics is proably going to be the major factor in bringing this about!
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