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Post by saddletramp on Aug 4, 2012 6:23:40 GMT
At elitist sports. Show jumping Clay pigeon shooting Rowing Tennis Archery Even cycling All require money. What chance of my kids of competing in a future Olympics in any of the above sports? I cant aford a horse and i dont think the council would let me build a stables in my 20 ft back garden. Clay pigeon shooting,with my criminal record,fat chance of me getting a gun licence,and them "pigeons" with the lovely pink dye in them,FFS there were 8 blokes in the shoot off final and they shot 200 EACH,how much does that cost? "i want to take up rowing dad" "ok son lets pop down to soccersport and see how much a boat costs" or even better lets ring up The Leander Club and book a few lessons with that Redgrave chap. Tennis,you might think anyone can progress in that sport,well my daughter and her friend used to play a lot of Tennis and where really good, her friend to help her progress joined,John LLoyd in Cowley,about £1300 a year membership,and has coaching lessons at £35 an hour,"sorry love cant afford it" Archery,good god can you see the OBs reaction if you where caught walking round BBL with one of those! "honest officer,i know it costs 5 grand and the arrers ar £50 apiece,but me ma got it cheap on E-bay." And cycling,them bikes are 20 grand apiece !! i know you work up to those,but my lad didnt stand a chance on his Raleigh Chipper when he joined the local cycling club. Pity Polo and Croquet arent Olympic sports,we would have even more medals. Sorry lads i think we will have to stick to footie if we want to make it in sport. P.S. dont get me started on the most elitist sport in England,egg chasing. People say its not elitist anymore,well have a look at the captain of England and where he went to school,it certainly wasnt the local tech. Chris Robshaw went to Millfield prep school. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millfieldwww.millfieldprep.com/about/admissions/fees-charges.htmFollowed by Millfield senior school www.millfieldschool.com/about/admissions/fees-charges.htmThere facilities include Sports Millfield is internationally renowned as a sports school; its large purpose-built campus housing a wide range of facilities. 130 staff sports coaches oversee the different sports on offer, including basketball, golf, hockey (indoor and outdoor), girls' athletics, fencing, modern pentathlon, triathlon, rugby union sevens, squash, cricket, orienteering, and tennis. The sports facilities of the school include: 2 eighteen-hole golf courses and a driving range 2 multi-purpose sports halls 3 Olympic-quality water-based astroturfs A 50-metre indoor swimming pool A fencing salle A full-sized cricket pitch with pavilion and practice facilities A judo dojo A large equestrian centre (including an indoor riding school) A large gym and a free weights room A running track, with track and field facilities An indoor tennis centre with numerous courts Large multi use playing fields for rugby and football pitches Many tennis courts, darts centres, squash and netball courts My lad is sports mad and i would love the chance to send him to this school,anyone got a spare 2 hundred grand around the house ? P.P.S.dont get confused with the fees, that £10,420 is not a yearly fee,its a TERM.
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Post by bicesteryellow on Aug 4, 2012 7:39:13 GMT
And my school has a field just about big enough for a 300m grass running track
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Post by hairy on Aug 4, 2012 8:26:31 GMT
Its Football or Boxing (Rugby league as well up north) for the working classes really, always has been and most likely allways will be. People go for sports that are established in their areas so that its unlikely to change much.
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Post by Long John Silver on Aug 4, 2012 8:46:30 GMT
Practically anyone can do cycling and join a club. You can get him a bike that is adequate for any age for not much more than the cost of his season ticket.... if you wanted to.
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Post by sarumox on Aug 4, 2012 10:05:25 GMT
You forgot to add Darts and Snooker. Biggest expense with them is the the bar bill. A lot of sports not considered as popular are expensive, tennis and golf both claim to be for everyone yet yearly membership can be well over a grand. Add equipment to those costs and it is clear sports like football will be seen as the most accessible to the majority of people.
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Post by bicesteryellow on Aug 4, 2012 10:37:17 GMT
Just researched, 1 golf bat (!1!) costs £349.
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Post by scotchegg on Aug 4, 2012 10:59:09 GMT
A set of golf clubs can be bought new for less than £200 - or cheaper second hand. A decent bike can be bought for about the same. Running clubs are often free, or with minimal expenses. Rowing clubs around Oxford will take youngsters on for next to nothing. Karate, Judo etc can be completed for the same amount as most kids get for pocket money.
Although some sports are more elitist than others, it is rubbish to use this as an excuse for not giving children an experience in all sports. In fact, anyone who has a kid who plays football at any decent level will know that there can be massive expenses in taking them training and games all over the country.
The best thing that can come out from these Olympics is showing children that there are loads more sports out there than football - and we can actually be the best in the world at them.
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Post by Browser on Aug 4, 2012 11:33:58 GMT
Yes we should decry those children who are born into wealth or who's parents strive to pay for their education. How dare they have those opportunities that we all cry out for, how dare they dedicate themselves to the discipline required to win medals and enthral the populace. Why the athletes who have come from deprived backgrounds would ever want to rub shoulders with that lot bemuses me. We should stand on mass and tear down the institutions that dare to influence our children to become possible champions and recognise the potential they show. Any parent who stands proud of their children's achievements should be publicly flogged. It should be compulsory to train children in the art of feigning injury, taking drugs, greed, adulatory etc that seems to be so prevalent in the game we chose to follow.
Larkin had it pretty sown up :-
This Be The Verse
They f*ck you up, your mum and dad. They may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn By fools in old-style hats and coats, Who half the time were soppy-stern And half at one another's throats.
Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can, And don't have any kids yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2012 12:31:31 GMT
It's attitudes like this that mean we don't have more "working class" athletes at elite level. Yes it might be easier if you are given the opportunity, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.
There seems to be very much a superiority complex within some people about being working class and anyone who does anything outside the allowed realm should be put in there place immediately.
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Post by Long John Silver on Aug 4, 2012 13:08:38 GMT
Just researched, 1 golf bat (!1!) costs �349. Just researched (well, 10 seconds on Google), a pair of Nike football boots £275.... what will the working class kids do now!
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Post by moomooland on Aug 4, 2012 15:16:04 GMT
Bradley Wiggins and Andy Murray amongst many others are living proof that you don't have to belong to an "elite" to get to the top in sport.
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Post by hairy on Aug 4, 2012 15:56:11 GMT
It's attitudes like this that mean we don't have more "working class" athletes at elite level. Yes it might be easier if you are given the opportunity, but that doesn't mean you can't do it. There seems to be very much a superiority complex within some people about being working class and anyone who does anything outside the allowed realm should be put in there place immediately. If you are not given the opportunity it must be close to impossible surely?
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Post by Browser on Aug 4, 2012 16:39:16 GMT
If you have the gift, desire and support the opportunity will present itself. I am so PROUD to be BRITISH after tonight's display.
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Post by pugs on Aug 4, 2012 21:59:38 GMT
Lets have a right old whinge about Britain finally being the best at something. Only in this country
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Post by telboyc on Aug 5, 2012 4:15:24 GMT
Pound for pound Great Britain are top of the medals table.
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Post by sihath on Aug 5, 2012 8:11:27 GMT
I'm assuming the opening post on this thread is a wind-up, but...
Elite athletes become Olympic champions because they don't give up at the first hurdle (pun intended). If someone has the talent, and their family are prepared to support them, then they've every chance of getting to the top. It just takes a huge amount of dedication. It's not going to be given to you on a plate.
Look at the 3 girls who won the team pursuit cycling.
Dani King went to a secondary school in Southampton. Laura Trott went to a secondary school in Cheshunt. Joanna Roswell went to a Grammar school in South London.
None of them went to a fee-paying school. They had talent but Dani and Joanna have both had to overcome health problems.
If your daughter still wants to play tennis then Juniors can join Thame Tennis club for less than £40 a year. Have you looked at any other tennis clubs or did you give up after finding that John Lloyd club costs £1300?
Seems it's too easy to blame someone else for not having the chance to play sports.
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Post by tonyw on Aug 5, 2012 9:13:32 GMT
I don't know under what criteria you come to the conclusion that we're the best in the world in tennis? We haven't been, precisely because there's not been sufficiently wide participation. But there are moves afoot to change that, such as this one: www.tennisforfree.com/Maybe that will actually give more people opportunities and one day we will be the best in the world, rather than simply churning out the occasional talent. To say that cycling is elitist - given the people that have won our medals this week - is completely absurd. Show jumping we'll give you. But that's not exactly high profile!
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Post by foghornleghorn on Aug 5, 2012 19:56:44 GMT
Well saddletramp, your kids best chance of competing in Olympics probably involves ditching their dad so they can get some decent advice. That'll come for free. Rowing gold medallist Alex Gregory went to a comprehensive school and is a result of the Row-Start programme. Steve Redgrave also went to a comprehensive school. Joining David Lloyd's is probably the most expensive way to start playing tennis and I'm not sure how wide their success has been. Its far, far cheaper to go down to your local tennis club and get coached their. If you have any ability you'll play for your county and from there you'll get spotted.
Btw, I was speaking to a Dad a couple of weeks back. An ordinary working bloke whose son is a keen footballer. Having one of those dad-son pep talks encouraging him to go for his goals and all that, he asked his son what he really wants. His son pulled out a Millfield Prospectus (seriously). Not being one to back down from a challenge, his dad made some investments to cover fees (not big, and not beyond most working class folk) and his son is starting Millfield next term. So that's a working class dad, sending his boy to that elitist school to play that working class sport. Where there's a will, there's a way.
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Post by foghornleghorn on Aug 5, 2012 20:16:40 GMT
P.P.S.dont get confused with the fees, that £10,420 is not a yearly fee,its a TERM. btw, how much would you expect termly boarding in senior school is?! 10k/yr will probably get your kid into a lock-up in hackney. They have resources but they cost. The school is almost certainly non-profit making, there's no profiteering, somebody has to pay for it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 10:11:18 GMT
There seems to be very much a superiority complex within some people about being working class and anyone who does anything outside the allowed realm should be put in there place immediately. Totally agree. IMO, there is more class snobbery these days by the "working class" against the middle class than there is the other way round. The working class like to portray themselves as this downtrodden disadvantaged sector of society but everyone in the UK has the opportunity to do well in life, whether its sport or anything else and attitude is the major difference.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 6, 2012 12:56:34 GMT
It's also about how school sports is getting less and less competitive where you win a medal for turning up and no one loses. You need to be competitive in sports from a young age to progress in sport. We can't mollycoddle young kids and expect them to suddenly get a competitive spirit at 11. We also let some kids get away with not doing sports because they are too embarrassed. I fully respect and understand sport can be humiliating for kids and that is nasty thing, but some kids are routinely embarrassed in maths but are forced to take it,
I'd also suggest that Private Schools are willing to dedicate the time and effort to sport. The school inspections are great, but if academic excellence is sought, schools will focus on academia alone, rather than sport and academia. With the reduction in school sporting facilities and parks, you cannot expect kids to just magically be athletic at 16.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 13:24:58 GMT
It's also about how school sports is getting less and less competitive where you win a medal for turning up and no one loses. You need to be competitive in sports from a young age to progress in sport. We can't mollycoddle young kids and expect them to suddenly get a competitive spirit at 11. We also let some kids get away with not doing sports because they are too embarrassed. I fully respect and understand sport can be humiliating for kids and that is nasty thing, but some kids are routinely embarrassed in maths but are forced to take it, Mostly agree but its interesting that the reason we fail in football is generally put down to being too competitve at a young age.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 6, 2012 20:36:36 GMT
Football has the other problem where there is too much pressure from over zealous Parents and Coaches to win to the point where developing the kids is often put into 2nd place over being top of the league. The balance between competitiveness and development isn't right at the moment.
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Post by fishpaste on Aug 6, 2012 20:40:47 GMT
Archery? Have I missed something?
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Post by pottersrightboot on Aug 7, 2012 7:54:51 GMT
Whinging tosh.
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Post by SteMerritt on Aug 7, 2012 8:19:07 GMT
Archery? Have I missed something? Well our Archers did, they kept missing that yellow bit of the target in the middle... why would anyone think we were any good at that? Odd thread. A very odd thread.
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Post by foghornleghorn on Aug 7, 2012 10:10:54 GMT
Archery? Have I missed something? Well our Archers did, they kept missing that yellow bit of the target in the middle... why would anyone think we were any good at that? Odd thread. A very odd thread. Well we would have won if those Whitehall do-gooders hadn't of repealed the archery laws in the 1960's. All English males over the age of14 will carry out 2 hours of longbow practice each weekend; this will be supervised by the local church official.
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Post by ounykee14 on Aug 7, 2012 16:10:38 GMT
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Post by hairy on Aug 7, 2012 16:39:55 GMT
There seems to be very much a superiority complex within some people about being working class and anyone who does anything outside the allowed realm should be put in there place immediately. Totally agree. IMO, there is more class snobbery these days by the "working class" against the middle class than there is the other way round. The working class like to portray themselves as this downtrodden disadvantaged sector of society but everyone in the UK has the opportunity to do well in life, whether its sport or anything else and attitude is the major difference. Its not the same opportunity though is it? You cant seriously believe that a child from a council estate from a single parent family has the same chances to become something in life as a a child who has been to private school and has wealthy parents? Not one study, statistics etc back you up on that so its quite a ridiculous claim to make.
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Post by Browser on Aug 7, 2012 17:22:22 GMT
Totally agree. IMO, there is more class snobbery these days by the "working class" against the middle class than there is the other way round. The working class like to portray themselves as this downtrodden disadvantaged sector of society but everyone in the UK has the opportunity to do well in life, whether its sport or anything else and attitude is the major difference. Its not the same opportunity though is it? You cant seriously believe that a child from a council estate from a single parent family has the same chances to become something in life as a a child who has been to private school and has wealthy parents? Not one study, statistics etc back you up on that so its quite a ridiculous claim to make. What a totally defeatist thing to put into print. Everybody has the opportunity in life through dedication and support to achieve however, there are so many people who think they are owed so much and yet give so little in this me, me, me world. Oh, I am a single parent. So what, get of your fat arse turn off Jeremy Kyle pack up the fags and try and do something with what you have produced, make them proud of you and be proud of them.
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