Reading

[Lone Gunman]

Apr 24, 2012 16:00:57 GMT baldy said:

Apr 24, 2012 12:01:35 GMT tonyw said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I would hate to be where Reading are now, heading to the Premiership.

Every man and his dog suddenly having an opinion on who should be our right back.
25,000 crowds full of prawn sandwich-munchers who never cared until we started playing the big boys (yes, I know we got 30,000+ for Wembley but a one-off glory boy occasion is different from every week).
Watching diving, shirt-grabbing, arrogant prats who earn more in a day than most of the crowd do in a year.

It would be horrible - and is not even close to the experience I want from my football club. Which is a much more insular, community-orientated spirit. A one off Cup tie at a big club is a fun experience. But most weeks, I'd rather be on the terraces at Aldershot or Barnet or even Crawley.

I would rather be back in the Conference than in the Premiership. And I mean that with every fibre of my being.

This post is utter nonsense. Totally bizarre.

I deduce by that that if we were going for promotion from the championship you would actually not be wanting us to win and would be wishing defeat upon us to prevent promotion, glory, £40 million and a place in the PL.

Im not being funny but you seem reasonably well clued up on PL football. I find it odd that you must either watch it or read about it yet hate it so much that you do not want your team to partake in it.

You cannot possibly be a true fan if that were the case

Nothing like ruining a reasonable post by going miles over the top eh baldy!

I think its easy to say that you wouldn't want us in the prem now, when we are so far away, but were we to go on a run of promotions a la Norwich or So'ton and end up on the verge of the premiership I think a lot of people's tunes would change pretty quickly. Norwich and Swansea have put up good examples of how you can gain promotion to the prem without selling your club's soul.

The suggestion that promotion to the top division would lead to unwanted glory hunters attending the club is problematic too. Taking that argument to its logical conclusion the likes on Tony would not want our support to climb beyond what it is now (which I imagine is probably the highest level of 'hardcore' support we could reasonably attract.) New fans of the club have to start somewhere and while Reading undoubtedly have gained a lot of plastics as a result of their flirtations with the PL, at least some of those have to have been converted into 'real' fans.

[Simon Lill]

It's all about a sense of belonging isn't it.

Personally I never felt more in touch with the club and it's fans than I did stood on the away terraces in the BSP.

The higher up the leagues you go, the weaker that connection becomes.

Also, a spell in the PL guarantees major changes. The worry is, whether those changes are for the greater good of the club.

And whilst I acknowledge that it would be ridiculous to wish defeat on the team if we did find ourselves challenging, I personally would be more at peace if the club yo-yo'd between Champ and L1 and enjoyed the occasional cup upset.

Lacking vision...maybe. But I just want to maintain that feeling that I'm a physical part of this football club.

Baldy's comment is laughable to be honest. Anyone who watches Oxford right now and back in the BSP days are REAL fans. Suggesting otherwise is pretty insulting.

[ianmoore82]

So just how many fans would Oxford attract today if the Manor was still open?

Less than at the Kassam, that's for sure.

I notice nobody has suggested that Swansea have a large contingent of 'plastic' fans and their ascent has mirrored Reading's somewhat.

I have always felt that Oxford/Swindon are very similar to Norwich/Ipswich in certain aspects

[baldy]

Apr 24, 2012 16:27:30 GMT Simon Lill said:

It's all about a sense of belonging isn't it.

Personally I never felt more in touch with the club and it's fans than I did stood on the away terraces in the BSP.

The higher up the leagues you go, the weaker that connection becomes.

Also, a spell in the PL guarantees major changes. The worry is, whether those changes are for the greater good of the club.

And whilst I acknowledge that it would be ridiculous to wish defeat on the team if we did find ourselves challenging, I personally would be more at peace if the club yo-yo'd between Champ and L1 and enjoyed the occasional cup upset.

Lacking vision...maybe. But I just want to maintain that feeling that I'm a physical part of this football club.

Baldy's comment is laughable to be honest. Anyone who watches Oxford right now and back in the BSP days are REAL fans. Suggesting otherwise is pretty insulting.

You say that but he doesn't want us in the PL so if we were on the verge of PL football I deduced that he would not want us to win and obtain PL status and I do not see ho wyou can be a true Oxford fan if you don't actually want us to win football matches to achieve a higher league status.

It just doesn't add up.

[helsinkiyellow]

Haha - typical!! Moobs and Baldy, two of the biggest contributors to any premier league related thread simply unable to compute that a fellow football fan couldn't give a feck about that division!! I don't agree with Tonyw but I kinda see where he is coming from.

[tonyw]

Apr 24, 2012 16:48:58 GMT baldy said:

You say that but he doesn't want us in the PL so if we were on the verge of PL football I deduced that he would not want us to win and obtain PL status and I do not see ho wyou can be a true Oxford fan if you don't actually want us to win football matches to achieve a higher league status.

It just doesn't add up.

Course it adds up - it's very simple.

My support of Oxford United has absolutely nothing to do with whether we win games or not. Zero.

I support Oxford United because I started going to matches with my mates back in the early 90s when I was 13/14 and I loved the experience. Loved the passion. Loved the terrace humour. Loved the edge to the whole occasion.

But I think what's kept me coming back over the past twenty years has been the chance to be a part of a small, dedicated, slightly mental (because let's face it - to go and watch games at some of the places we've been to in recent years, you've got to be a little mental) community.

There's so many things to love about it:

The fact that if you bump into another Oxford fan anywhere in the world - another one of the 10,000 or so hardy souls who attend a bunch of games a season - you've immediately got a ready-forged bond, and enough conversation to keep you occupied for years.

The look you get from the average part-time sports fan when you tell them who you support, and how often and where you've been to watch Oxford play. It's pitched somewhere between admiration, incredulity and maybe tinged with a slight note of fear!

That brilliant moment when you turn up at some God forsaken ramshackle ground in some dull provincial town you'd never have visited in a million years if you weren't supporting Oxford - and look around and see the other few hundred souls who've done the same.

Frankly it's even the ability to come on here and get into heated debate about the relative merits of two players that virtually noone else on the planet has ever heard of.


All of those things would be gone if Oxford ever made it to the Premier League.
And sure - the short term buzz and the glory of winning is great and all. But it's not worth trading all of the above for.



To answer some of the other fine points raised:

- LG, I take your point about any form of progressing bringing in more fans. But I'm not sure that's really true when you move between League Two/League One & the Championship. You don't immediately start attracting people who've never been before to home games against Peterborough and Barnsley. It's just that some occasionals may start to take in a few more games a year. And that's fine - they're all part of the community too. Most years I'm an occasional myself.
It's only when you hit the very top level, and all of a sudden you're on Match of the Day and the back page of the newspapers that you start to attract the real plastics. And every bloke in the pub starts to think he knows the club

- With regards Norwich & Swansea.....Hmmmmm...maybe. I'd argue that Norwich have almost always been a bigger club, and a bigger community. But when I was a kid, and Norwich were in the Champions League and beating Bayern Munich - I went through a phase of fancying myself as a Norwich fan despite never going to their games, or having anything to do with their community. And I'm sure there were a lot of other whiny plastics like me around as well at that time - which would've been infruriating for any proper Norwich fans who think like me.
And a friend of mine who's a big Stoke fan and season ticket holder (they're another club I'd bracket in the "kept their soul" club) - he absolutely pines for the days of the Championship, or even League One. Although they're doing great in the Premier League and having fun in Europe, he was happier on the terraces at Brentford or Hartlepool. And I would be too.

- Yes, I do follow the Premiership quite closely. But that's because I'm a complete sports tragic, and it's one of the highest profile leagues around. I could equally have the same sort of in depth discussion about international cricket, tennis, golf, the National Hockey League, the NFL, or Major League Baseball.
And I can't watch something without forming an opinion.
And I'm always happy to voice that opinion too.
Don't mistake any of that for thinking that I'd want my club to be part of it in a million years!

[moobs]

So a minute ago it was never in a million years with every fibre of your being, now it's maybe

Just goes to prove if you got a taste you'd be loving it.

[tonyw]

Apr 24, 2012 20:47:54 GMT moobs said:

So a minute ago it was never in a million years with every fibre of your being, now it's maybe

Just goes to prove if you got a taste you'd be loving it.

Did you read the last sentence of my post?

I admit it was a long read, and you probably got bored halfway through but still......

[egox]

Tonyw-although I do not agree with all of your post I can see that you are very passionate about OUFC. I would love Oxford to make it to the PL even if it was only for one season. What a great experience.

moobs-I often read your comments and, like others, find it difficult to believe your an Oxford fan. However, your definitely an attention seeker. I suspect your quite young and for that reason I do find myself forgiving you when you post a load of rubbish!

Everyone else- has anyone actually met moobs and if yes what was he like? (just wondered).

[Lone Gunman]

I'll not quote you tony because it'll take ip the whole board but I think that's a great post. i don't necessarily agree with all of it but its a great post and something which has been sadly lacking from this forum of late.

I get what you say about the camaraderie and the 'family' aspect of being an Oxford fan. Going to some of the tinpot dumps we've been to in recent years there is a definite buzz when you walk out of the railway station or get out of the car and see the yellow shirts dotted about. But i'm not sure you would lose that if we went up to the prem. The experience would change but i don't think that change would necessarily be for the worst.

As to the plastics, you're going to get them with any success I think. Even in the championship I think we might attract a stripe of fan you might brand as plastic. Despite this i can't imagine the away experience changing much (and if i've got it right I can see you as more of an away man anyway) because your plastics, while wanting to see 'their' team playing the big boys, aren't going to put in the effort.

[unification]

Ah - sensible discussion. Its been too long. Some very interesting posts in here.

Here's a scenario - imagine that the Premier League was never 'created' and that all teams still played in a four division football league ruled by one body as before 1992. Would that influence those who dislike the top flight to consider Oxford playing at that level again?

I've always found the Premier League (or Premiership - remember when it was called that? It was rebranded to sell it abroad) to be a bit of a pointless exercise and something that has made football less fair and more confused over the years. Why 'create' a new league altogether which acts independently of the three divisions below it? Why does the Football League insist on giving each division such ridiculous names? For years, the second tier was called 'Division 1' - how does that add up? 'League 2' is now the fourth tier! I just hope the next sponsor of the FL renames them again to undermine the Prem and calls them Divisions 2,3 and 4.

[sihath]

Apr 25, 2012 11:48:46 GMT unification said:

Ah - sensible discussion. Its been too long. Some very interesting posts in here.

Here's a scenario - imagine that the Premier League was never 'created' and that all teams still played in a four division football league ruled by one body as before 1992. Would that influence those who dislike the top flight to consider Oxford playing at that level again?

I've always found the Premier League (or Premiership - remember when it was called that? It was rebranded to sell it abroad) to be a bit of a pointless exercise and something that has made football less fair and more confused over the years. Why 'create' a new league altogether which acts independently of the three divisions below it? Why does the Football League insist on giving each division such ridiculous names? For years, the second tier was called 'Division 1' - how does that add up? 'League 2' is now the fourth tier! I just hope the next sponsor of the FL renames them again to undermine the Prem and calls them Divisions 2,3 and 4.

The point was to keep more (all) of the money to themselves. I think it was around the start of the PL era that clubs also changed the rules to keep the home gate receipts rather than splitting them.

Since then the rich/big clubs have got bigger and the rest of us feed off the scraps.

[Deleted]

tonyw

I completely understand where you're coming from.

BUT you're also misunderstanding some of the replies. We're not disagreeing with you that its quite nice to support a lower league club instead of a big PL club, but if it came to it and we were in the Championship play-offs, you wouldn't be wanting us to lose! A fan cannot ever want their team to lose, it goes against everything they stand for!

[winchesterox]

Apr 20, 2012 12:30:56 GMT tonyw said:

Apr 19, 2012 21:05:28 GMT londonroader said:

It puts our attempts to move forward into perspective, at the rate we are going it will be a very long day before we will get close to reading again, who says sugar daddies don't work.

Sugar Daddies work when they're really in love with the club they're funding (Whelan, Madjeski) or they have so much money that they can happily write off hundreds of millions without noticing it (Abrahamovich).

When they're not rich enough, and/or don't care enough - you end up with Portsmouth.

Someone told me yesterday that Portsmouth might be looking to merge with Waterlooville, with the new name.................

Portalooville.

Badum tschhh.