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Post by Contact eaststandboy on Dec 8, 2011 9:29:44 GMT
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Post by aldermanwise on Dec 8, 2011 10:13:38 GMT
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Post by moobs on Dec 8, 2011 11:04:57 GMT
Bloke further down on the comments reckons £8M
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Post by Mark on Dec 8, 2011 11:10:00 GMT
"When asked if Structadene could confirm the second offer was £4.5m, the spokesperson declined to reveal the figures involved, but added: “Four-and-half million pounds might be fair in the club’s eyes, but if you walk into a shop and want to buy a suit that costs £100, £50 might seem fair. Unfortunately, the price is still £100.
“We don’t need to sell and there is no requirement for us to sell the property because we are very happy with the return we are getting on it.”
Roughly the same problem here. Kassam will be happy with his rental and conference income and that it gives him some control over what happens around the rest of the Ozone and hotel area. Whereas for OUFC the rent is cheaper than the equivalent mortgage.
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Post by pugs on Dec 8, 2011 11:12:04 GMT
Kassam knows the stadium isn't worth as much as it once was so is more than happy to take the high rental instead - hence the status quo at present....
edit: beat me by 2 mins slappy!
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Post by oxymoron on Dec 8, 2011 20:10:44 GMT
There seems to be a mis-conception that a million pounds is a vast amount of money.
Now it is to you and me as individuals, but to many established companies, a million is small beer – more so where that company deals with property and real estate. Also take into account the value of the stadium verses the worth of the stadium and you can perhaps understand why Kassam wants £10m for it –it may not be worth that amount, but it has value.
And while we get a better financial deal paying rent, I can’t see us busting a gut to buy it until we are in a position to realise that value in the stadium for ourselves.
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Post by valhallayellow on Dec 8, 2011 21:06:36 GMT
Well that article isn't a surprise. I feel dizzy reading all that spin.
The sub-text being that they seem unable to afford to buy it, whether that for £13m or a sum less. Firoka would sell it for less which makes the whole sorry episode worse.
I would have thought this would have been better in the 'Management' section as the story relates to the 'Management' trying to buy a football stadium.
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Post by ox4eva on Dec 9, 2011 13:29:48 GMT
I am sure there was comment that we were pretty close at one stage to putting something together to buy the ground
That stance seems to have changed now, i don't want us to over reach financially but would love us to own the ground and cut all links to Ka$$am
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Post by lofty on Dec 9, 2011 13:49:54 GMT
Being a 'scummer' give me some background here, guys.
Did you get owt for the Manor when you left?
If yes, was that used to build your present home?
Just what is the history of your club and Kassam
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Post by Mark on Dec 9, 2011 14:14:34 GMT
Being a 'scummer' give me some background here, guys. Did you get owt for the Manor when you left? If yes, was that used to build your present home? Just what is the history of your club and Kassam Kassam owned the club, which owned the Manor. The Manor was sold by the club (without planning permission) to another Kassam company for £6MM. The Manor was security for a bank mortgage of £6MM. Anymore and that would have meant more money paid out to creditors in the CVA. So selling the Manor paid off the bank debt. Kassam then got the planning permission, and sold the Manor for £12MM, and kept the profit. The stadium cost around £12MM to finish off - and expenditure written off from before his time was another £7MM or so.
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Post by lofty on Dec 9, 2011 14:20:52 GMT
So, is Kassam blamed for your drop into the Conf. and is his stranglehold over the club at the present time resented by fans or is he some kind of benign presence in the background?
Cant be worse than Maxwell, surely
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Post by Mark on Dec 9, 2011 14:36:15 GMT
Kassam ran the club into the ground - keeping it going long enough that he could finish the rest of the Ozone around the stadium, but without splashing out on getting the club promoted. The current owners it seems rushed in to buy the club, with an agreement to buy the ground for £13MM (basically £10MM cost, and £3MM for the profitable conference facilities). However, that is unaffordable for various reasons - it is cheaper to rent and the owners won't or can't find enough cash to pay as a deposit and the rest by mortgage. The other problem is that the club is stuck with a lease where the rent goes up by inflation each year, and goes up if we get promoted (but didn't go down for the conference).
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Post by lofty on Dec 9, 2011 14:47:52 GMT
OK, thanks. It is the same for most clubs that don't own their ground - but then again, you are never sure of the owner's motives if he/she/they do buy the ground.
Bring back the good old days when club owners were actually FANS and not using clubs as a vehicle to make themselves money
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Post by heel on Dec 9, 2011 16:32:34 GMT
So what's changed in the year since this timeline was set. If WPL were happy to pay £13m a year ago why are they not happy to do so now? I remember Mr Lenagan saying at a fans forum that £13m was an acceptable price. The biggest concern for me is the club being able to progress without the stadium. I'd say there isn't much more the club can do now in terms of increasing revenue or creating new revenue streams without owning the stadium. We've managed to make small profits over the last couple of seasons thanks to Deano's sale, wembley, and west ham. But this year cashflow is clearly tight, on the Bridle thread Bridle admits to giving the club a donation last month to ease cashflow worries. So if we are unable to challenge at the top end of league 2 our gates will drop and make finances even tighter. If we go up the difference in average wage bills between League 1 and 2 is staggering but the problem being there is very little difference in revenue between the leagues in terms of gates, and TV money. So it would financially be a real struggle even if we did go up. We are at a massive disadvantage without the ground as we pay a big chunk of change for the rent/service charge and get zero in terms of conference and refreshment revenue, which is not the case at most other clubs that rent their grounds. So the only way we can progress is for either Mr Lenagan to bankroll us – Which is has already said he won't do. Or for us to get the revenue streams from owning the ground, or of course sell a player every season for a decent fee and that's no banker. So I personally am worried by the club's statement. What is WPL's vision for the future and how do they plan to get there. What happens if we have a tough year financially will WPL cover the debts? The article might be posturing by Kelvin but to push the blame on Kassam is dangerous as he is a stuborn b*stard and this may well curtail negotiations. He surely doesn't need to sell so antagonising him is not the way to go. Having said that how do the club know he won't take less than £13m have they ever tested his resolve with an offer of any kind? Its been around 5 and a half years since WPL took over and we seem no closer to getting the stadium than ever. It seems to me they don't have the funds to do the deal but won't admit it and are shifting the blame to Kassam. Whatever the reasons i hope there's a fans forum soon so they can highlight the way forwards if the stadium is a non starter.
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Post by lofty on Dec 9, 2011 16:45:28 GMT
TBH
If anyone is in the position to buy property at the moment - whether a stadium or just a house - now is the time to do so with prices depressed.
Depends on whether the owner wants or needs to sell.
I have a deep interest in greyhound racing and there is a similar situation at Walthamstow at the moment where the previous owners sold to developers who have now been refused PP so the site is worth nowhere near as much as they paid for it but are playing hardball with people who want to purchase it to reopen a dog track
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Post by m on Dec 9, 2011 16:57:26 GMT
It seems to me they don't have the funds to do the deal but won't admit it and are shifting the blame to Kassam.. It seems to me that you have been in a coma for 5 years.
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Post by doobs on Dec 11, 2011 10:15:11 GMT
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Post by mcf86 on Dec 11, 2011 17:12:18 GMT
''Buying stadium a priority but not a necessity''
Just one way of telling the OGB k***am, that although buying the Stadium is desirable -it's not crucial for the Club to survive. Therefore, we (OUFC) won't be paying a premium for the Stadium and will only consider purchasing it if the terms and viability is rock solid. As stated by others, k***am is more than happy taking the Clubs' rent, and will only flog his Stadium if the price is right and/or he's cash strapped for another project. So it appears to be stalemate, but the fact the subject of ground purchase is being spoken about in the media may mean discussions are ongoing with both parties -If so, expect some sort of Public response from k***sam as a retaliation to the statement from KT.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2011 17:49:38 GMT
''Buying stadium a priority but not a necessity'' Just one way of telling the OGB k***am, that although buying the Stadium is desirable -it's not crucial for the Club to survive. Pretty much the impression I got when I saw the headline. If you tell someone you really, really want to buy something off them then they are bound to charge a little bit more.
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Post by pottersrightboot on Dec 13, 2011 22:08:10 GMT
''Buying stadium a priority but not a necessity'' Just one way of telling the OGB k***am, that although buying the Stadium is desirable -it's not crucial for the Club to survive. Therefore, we (OUFC) won't be paying a premium for the Stadium and will only consider purchasing it if the terms and viability is rock solid. As stated by others, k***am is more than happy taking the Clubs' rent, and will only flog his Stadium if the price is right and/or he's cash strapped for another project. So it appears to be stalemate, but the fact the subject of ground purchase is being spoken about in the media may mean discussions are ongoing with both parties -If so, expect some sort of Public response from k***sam as a retaliation to the statement from KT. Aren't most property magnates cash strapped at the moment though? Don't see any great 'vision' for club from current owners at present. But in current climate who's really going to stump up a few mill/get a mortgage for a ground like ours? Is Lenagan the man, when you consider how badly he got shook down by Merry? Even so I would imagine Wilder is under subtle but increasing pressure; we have to make some real progress this season. IE Playoffs.
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Post by Contact eaststandboy on Dec 13, 2011 22:20:34 GMT
So what's changed in the year since this timeline was set. If WPL were happy to pay �13m a year ago why are they not happy to do so now? I remember Mr Lenagan saying at a fans forum that �13m was an acceptable price I thought the price was not acceptable. And they were negotiating the price that the club thought the stadium and.conference centre is actually worth? Sent from my GT-I9000 using ProBoards
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Post by Charlie Don't Surf on Jan 2, 2012 20:53:04 GMT
Heard some very interesting news today.... 2012 will see a "little" change
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Jan 2, 2012 20:57:14 GMT
Heard some very interesting news today.... 2012 will see a "little" change So Mini are going to be contributing more than a few leftover car seats, then.
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Post by collyox (banned) on Jan 3, 2012 17:33:43 GMT
Landlords dont sell their investments....they may add to them tho..................slum landlords especially;)
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Post by paulayres on Jan 4, 2012 7:56:41 GMT
Run properly how much additional revenue could the stadium produce on an annual basis? How much match day revenue would be produced which would gone directly into the club?? How much extra would the annual payments be for a mortgage of say £8m be over the current rent?
It may well be financially better for the club to have a mortgage with the additional revenue the stadium would/could raise which 100Pc would go towards financeing the club and stadium. Stating that renting is cheaper does not take into consideration revenue lost every home game due to Kassam taking the revenue on food and drink etc.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Jan 4, 2012 8:51:54 GMT
Surely, we have to bear in mind that it will not be 'the club' buying the stadium. It will be (most likely at the moment) the Lenagans. The stadium will be owned by (something like) Oxford United Stadium Ltd. Which might sound like the football club, but actually is a completely new, separate company. The football club will still be tenants. Now, the new landlords will have the interests of the football club at heart of course, but we will still have to pay rent - and both that and the conference centre proceeds will have to be used to pay for the stadium.
So how much of the revenue/reduced rent will find it's way back to the playing side is completely unknown. And since the club and the stadium are still split, it will be quite possible to sell either one separately in the future.
Don't get me wrong, it would be much better to have sympathetic landlord rather than the current one - but that's all it would be.
Disclaimer - I know nothing of high finance and company structures! So this might be rubbish. But I don't think it is...
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Post by yellowoptimist on Jan 4, 2012 10:41:44 GMT
Landlords dont sell their investments....they may add to them tho..................slum landlords especially;) Like adding a sports club to use their existing assets?
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Post by superox on Jan 4, 2012 19:28:59 GMT
Heard some very interesting news today.... 2012 will see a "little" change Sounds interesting - you're normally correct on these things so I am inclined to believe these little nuggets of information.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 20:05:09 GMT
why cant we just stop paying the rent? (isnt there a 25yr thing that oufc have got to play at the kasstad)
why cant the football league help out?
also why cant someone buy us the ground, donate it too us and then wee pay them 13mil from the extra revenue we recive with having the ground?
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Jan 5, 2012 8:49:01 GMT
why cant we just stop paying the rent? (isnt there a 25yr thing that oufc have got to play at the kasstad) why cant the football league help out? also why cant someone buy us the ground, donate it too us and then wee pay them 13mil from the extra revenue we recive with having the ground? 1. We have signed a contract. You can't just stop paying. There is a covenant on the stadium that it has to be used for sport (IIRC) - not neccessarily OUFC. If we walked (and paid all the financial penalties, which we couldn't so the club would be bust/closed/dead) I'm sure Kassam could find a rugby club or something who'd use it. 2. Why on earth should the Football League be helping any club buy their stadium? 3. That could happen - if you could find an Oxford fan with a spare £13 million who wouldn't mind missing out on the £1 million a year he could earn in interest by investing his money. Let us know when you find him/her!
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