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Post by bacardisteve on Feb 2, 2011 18:39:12 GMT
well i read it as he means lets get the players we have defending better because he thinks they are good enough
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 18:46:04 GMT
You're right, on re-reading it does seem to look like that. Apologies. He has however very recently said that Wright isn't good enough to deal with long balls. I'm not sure quite why the sudden change in mind, but I suppose that's not a major concern.
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 18:49:42 GMT
We do have the players, the play is to predictable not varied enough,the players cant defend set pieces, i was not critical when we were winning the only point i made was Mclean doesnt score enough goals.The only solution is for the manager to sort it out.And yes we do make chances but we miss to many. by all accounts we should have been three up before they scored two defensive errors and we are losing.It is all construtive comments if you regard this as critical thenfair enough, as you seem to be the fountain of knowledge regarding this forum any ideas, maybe you should become the team coach.There is still along way to go yet.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 19:33:07 GMT
Windows, I come on here and state my opinions a lot because I'm passionate about the club, I imagine you do too. You do it just as much as me. There's no point slating me for it.
You were critical when we were winning, I vividly remember your criticisms of Wright and Maclean in particular.
Why are we predictable? How does that make sense if we create so many chances? You might argue that we struggle with finishing, although that will bring us round to the debate about Beano's style of play, as there's far from a guarantee we would have even got those 3 chances without him. However, we should score enough goals based on our goal return, we're rarely shut out. If we cut out 90% of the goals we conceded from set pieces, we'd be soaring up in the automatic promotion spots. There's our problem. I don't know the solution, unfortunately, and neither does anyone else seem to.
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Post by fishpaste on Feb 2, 2011 20:24:49 GMT
When was the last time one of our centre backs went up and scored ? On memory only, Foster at Barrow [october 2009]
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 20:28:28 GMT
I am not slating you for anything,The only point i made about wright was i did not think as a centre back he was big enough to defend high balls. i have never mentioned beano, no problems with beano creates chances and scores goals misses a few as well. Why you say i am critical of Mclean? What i have said is he does not score goals, as i have said before we have always made chances but failed to score. We do not score enough goals as our goal tally shows.We need someone to put our chances away give the other players a chance.As for the defence what more can i say.
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Post by fishpaste on Feb 2, 2011 20:36:11 GMT
Regarding goals scored from our defenders I can only think of Batt and Kinniburgh with 1 each. I think Worley, Tonkin and Wright haven't scored.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 20:37:06 GMT
I am not slating you for anything,The only point i made about wright was i did not think as a centre back he was big enough to defend high balls. i have never mentioned beano, no problems with beano creates chances and scores goals misses a few as well. Why you say i am critical of Mclean? What i have said is he does not score goals, as i have said before we have always made chances but failed to score. We do not score enough goals as our goal tally shows.We need someone to put our chances away give the other players a chance.As for the defence what more can i say. You just slated me by sarcastically claiming I was a fountain of knowledge. The chances we missed against Southend were missed by Beano, so he's the one culpable for missing those chances, that's why I bought him up. You have also said Maclean doesn't do that much in creating chances. You said he needs to score more goals, and I'm pretty sure you've suggested bringing Midson in instead of him. That strikes me as being critical, I say similar things (also defensively speaking) about Tonkin and consider myself critical of him. And it's not true to say we've always created chances. During our bad spell for the vast majority, we didn't. Since then, we have been creating chances, and it's been down to Maclean in large part. He is necessary in that sense, most teams don't have more than 2 strikers on the pitch that score regularly, and we have 2 in Beano and Craddock. Our goals for since the Chesterfield game have largely been 2 per game with a couple of exceptions either way. I don't see why that's not good enough. The problem is that we concede ridiculous amounts from set pieces which means that we can never get away with scoring 1 goal, we hardly ever get shut out.
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 20:44:27 GMT
I thought that was a compliment.Its not chances we need its goals.I did say maybe he needs a rest give midson a chance he can hold the ball up, that isnt critiscism , i have to contradict you during our bad spell we did make chances but could not score. When we score two goals bradford 16 chances no it is not good enough.So lets get back to my comment about Mclean not scoring goals is a fact not a critisism, we need someone to put these missed chances in the net.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 20:54:44 GMT
Maybe I misread the fountain of knowledge thing, but nobody's ever described me as that before, so I just sort of assumed it was a slating comment. Rambler, maybe, but never heard fountain of knowledge before During our bad spell we did not create clear-cut chances, at the very least. Take the first Bradford game as an example, we didn't get a single one, nor Burton, nor Gillingham (although that's slightly odd because Maclean was playing, but as a lone striker, so he didn't have much of a chance there). Maclean not only creates us chances, but creates genuinely clear chances, which is something we have missed aside from the ones that Beano creates for himself. The way you use facts can be critical, as here. However, there is a fact you ignored, that he rarely misses chances. That isn't his job, he's a creative player, the tag of striker is misleading. We have Beano and Craddock playing to put away those chances, and up front, that's enough. The problem with goals if we have any is the lack of goals from other areas of the pitch.
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 21:06:18 GMT
Lack of goals from midfield could be because of the formation.Three up front? Mclean makes the chances for the other two.Maybe we need to play a winger play two up front this may enable the midfielders to get forward .As for mclean we need him to create chances for himself and score, he know doubt is a skillful player.If he rearely misses why cant the other strikers create chances
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 21:13:21 GMT
I don't think it is the formation, 4-3-3 always allows at least one midfielder to get forward, but only Heslop has shown any definite ability to score and even then he's missing chances. I still don't see that goals scored is a major issue. I don't understand your last point - he rarely misses because it isn't his job to get up and score, it's his job to help other people do it and for the most part he does it well. 4-3-3 allows three strikers, the most common source of goals, and if one of them doesn't score, as here, it's the best formation for actually getting more goals anyway.
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 21:21:14 GMT
As you have just said heslop misses chances, the goals scored is a issue ,we should have scored a lot more.As i have tried to point out we need someone to put these missed chances in the net.M
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 21:22:22 GMT
My last point is why cant the other strikers create chances for Mclean if he rarely misses.?
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 21:26:49 GMT
He rarely misses because he isn't needed to score chances, not because he's a natural finisher. I could have made that one clearer. Yes, Heslop misses chances, but that doesn't mean goals scored is an issue. Having two strikers as high scoring as Craddock and Beano is a feat, both are very good and over the last 10 or so games have been the major reason that we have generally got 2 per game. That's not a bad ratio, so I don't understand the problem. I do think it could be improved, as with anything, which is why I brought the midfield into it, but I don't see it being something that warrants any major overhaul, particularly in terms of formation.
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Post by windows on Feb 2, 2011 21:31:13 GMT
Agreed lets just hope the defence can be sorted out. Clean sheet at Gillingham.Mclean scores everyone will we happy.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 2, 2011 21:39:20 GMT
No problems with what you said there
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Post by pete1984 on Feb 3, 2011 8:12:16 GMT
Everybody; great debate. But maybe we are looking at this from the wrong perspective (inc me ). One of the great Cloughies mantras was to stop the crosses coming in, and conversely he used to say get the ball to Robertson and he will get the crosses in for Forest. As we clearly do NOT have the quality or depth of defenders and the window has shut on us, maybe the answer is to limit the crosses coming in.
That means more discipline with the tackles in areas where crosses can come from if free kicks are given away. Also of course the emphasis is on Batty, Tonkin et al to actually defend, and keep the crosses down to a min. Might mean the much maligned 4-4-2 needing to be used at time OR a form of it say 4-1-4-1. We need to grind out some clean sheets and the forwards will do the rest...............just a thought
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Post by improvox on Feb 3, 2011 8:21:56 GMT
Mclean is instrumental in the majority of out build up play, the guy can spot a pass that I dont even notice when I am up in the stands with a great view of the whole pitch. It does not matter that he is not scoring, he is such a creative player, without looking back at our goals since he joined us, (if i was a betting man) I would be willing to bet he was involved in the build up of at least 2 in every 3.
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Post by grumpygit on Feb 3, 2011 8:30:40 GMT
Well, Batt will be out for 3 games, unless we appeal against the pathetic sending off. So this opens the door to Purkiss who defends, rather than be used as a defensive-winger like Batt.
I agree with what has been said about Ryan, he seems intent on punching theses days and doesn't dominate the area when crosses are coming in. I'm not saying he's a bad keeper, far from it, but he needs to be more offensive in defence. And shout at the defenders more aka Billy.
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Post by socrates on Feb 4, 2011 10:30:00 GMT
Judging by Lewis comments in the Mail today, our problems are bigger than I first thought
Unbelievably, he thinks we CAN defend
What is the club record for consecutive games w/o a clean sheet?
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Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 4, 2011 15:26:02 GMT
Judging by Lewis comments in the Mail today, our problems are bigger than I first thought Unbelievably, he thinks we CAN defend What is the club record for consecutive games w/o a clean sheet? 23. 22 comsecutive league.
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Post by moobs on Feb 4, 2011 15:30:18 GMT
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