|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 10, 2017 23:48:58 GMT
|
|
|
Post by maggiesdad on Dec 11, 2017 6:59:49 GMT
As ever,a great read. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by CheltenhamYellow on Dec 11, 2017 7:56:07 GMT
Enjoyed your report, as ever, Paul. But I’ll take issue with your very dismissive comment about people who leave before the end. There are a number of health-related issues for some people less fortunate than ourselves which mean they HAVE to leave early to avoid the exiting crowds and frantic car parks. I have witnessed this in my own family. Maaybe a LITTLE more tolerance please? But thank you otherwise for your perceptive and articulate contributions every week.
|
|
|
Post by uptheus on Dec 11, 2017 8:34:41 GMT
Enjoyed your report, as ever, Paul. But I’ll take issue with your very dismissive comment about people who leave before the end. There are a number of health-related issues for some people less fortunate than ourselves which mean they HAVE to leave early to avoid the exiting crowds and frantic car parks. I have witnessed this in my own family. Maaybe a LITTLE more tolerance please? But thank you otherwise for your perceptive and articulate contributions every week. He did say it was a joke.
|
|
|
Post by iambungle on Dec 11, 2017 10:27:37 GMT
Tiendalli - a couple of good interceptions when the ball was on the ground granted, but equally at least 2 horrendous mistakes when he let the ball bounce over him, leaving the Donny player clean through both times.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 11, 2017 10:57:48 GMT
Enjoyed your report, as ever, Paul. But I’ll take issue with your very dismissive comment about people who leave before the end. There are a number of health-related issues for some people less fortunate than ourselves which mean they HAVE to leave early to avoid the exiting crowds and frantic car parks. I have witnessed this in my own family. Maaybe a LITTLE more tolerance please? But thank you otherwise for your perceptive and articulate contributions every week. He did say it was a joke. Exactly. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I still chuckle about that 5-5 draw with Pompey at the Manor in 1992.
|
|
|
Post by manorman on Dec 11, 2017 10:58:35 GMT
I think we usually see games the same way Paul and Saturday was no exception. One key difference for me this year so far is that I no longer enjoy the games as much as last year. The excitement that pace brings to games is not there and we have no one who I see as a real game changer. It all feels a bit grey at the moment and I am looking for some inspirational signings in January.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 11, 2017 10:59:43 GMT
Tiendalli - a couple of good interceptions when the ball was on the ground granted, but equally at least 2 horrendous mistakes when he let the ball bounce over him, leaving the Donny player clean through both times. Can't say I noticed that. Perhaps I'm focusing on the positives and not negatives as far as he is concerned because I thought he got a fair bit of unfair stick when he first came into the team.
|
|
|
Post by highlights on Dec 11, 2017 11:22:46 GMT
Some of the negativity here... I thought for two thirds of the game we played really well (as did the two scouts I came with) - we kept possession well and moved the ball quickly with good intent. We totally outpassed them, even if chances were at a premium (which was inevitable seeing how deep Donny sat). The fullbacks both had good games, as did Xemi and Ruffels. The downsides I saw were the generally dreadful half hour so in the second half (applies to both teams), the fact that our defence still looks wobbly, and the lack of an outball - Thomas couldn't make it stick at all. Donny on the other hand worked their outball really well. All their attacks came from their front man holding the ball up.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 11, 2017 12:01:05 GMT
Some of the negativity here... I thought for two thirds of the game we played really well (as did the two scouts I came with) - we kept possession well and moved the ball quickly with good intent. We totally outpassed them, even if chances were at a premium (which was inevitable seeing how deep Donny sat). The fullbacks both had good games, as did Xemi and Ruffels. The downsides I saw were the generally dreadful half hour so in the second half (applies to both teams), the fact that our defence still looks wobbly, and the lack of an outball - Thomas couldn't make it stick at all. Donny on the other hand worked their outball really well. All their attacks came from their front man holding the ball up. That's good to hear. Encouraging.
|
|
|
Post by CheltenhamYellow on Dec 11, 2017 12:11:01 GMT
He did say it was a joke. Exactly. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I still chuckle about that 5-5 draw with Pompey at the Manor in 1992. Yes: point taken. My apologies.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 11, 2017 12:52:08 GMT
Exactly. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I still chuckle about that 5-5 draw with Pompey at the Manor in 1992. Yes: point taken. My apologies. No problem. And you've got me thinking about a topic I could cover in some detail.
|
|
|
Post by ssu1965 on Dec 11, 2017 13:28:20 GMT
the match was very Reminiscent of our latter L2 and conference endeavours mostly due to the way Donny played, Oxford at least tried to play through the thirds. Doncaster definitely came for a point then decided they might just nick it and confused themselves with how to play against us. The referee lost control of the game and I'm still surprised that either team didn't lose a player to a red at some stage, The big lad upfront for them was a bruiser and really should've been sent off on 'two' occasions'. Wasn't Pep polite about their style in the post match talk.
|
|
|
Post by ZeroTheHero on Dec 11, 2017 13:32:39 GMT
I thought for two thirds of the game we played really well (as did the two scouts I came with) I know you are a professional at this and I am 'just' a punter, but I really cannot believe you or the people you came with genuinely thought we played well for any extended period of the match on Saturday. Presumably you noticed the lack of pace? The odd decision making at free kicks? The slow sideways passing that achieved very little? The unambitious subs? The lack of movement off the ball? The reluctance to shoot? The playing ourselves into trouble? Maybe Mrs Zero had sprinkled some downers into my sandwiches!
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cannell on Dec 11, 2017 15:17:53 GMT
Perhaps the scouts had their woggles over their eyes. If that was good football I'm a banana.
|
|
|
Post by highlights on Dec 11, 2017 16:34:35 GMT
I thought for two thirds of the game we played really well (as did the two scouts I came with) I know you are a professional at this and I am 'just' a punter, but I really cannot believe you or the people you came with genuinely thought we played well for any extended period of the match on Saturday. Presumably you noticed the lack of pace? The odd decision making at free kicks? The slow sideways passing that achieved very little? The unambitious subs? The lack of movement off the ball? The reluctance to shoot? The playing ourselves into trouble? Maybe Mrs Zero had sprinkled some downers into my sandwiches! Let's break this down: - Lack of pace is reality of the team. You can't coach people to run faster. Given that was missing, we encouraged our wingers to cut in, which was pretty effective, and something they really struggled to deal with (especially when the fullbacks bombed on into the space they left) - our goal came from that, as did Henry nearly scoring in the first half, as did a Thomas chance in the second. I/we thought it was pretty clever considering that the wingers were not quick. - Set plays were admittedly dreadful. That was noted! But while it was a frustration, it's such an isolated part of the game it's something that can be fixed relatively quickly. Frankly defending set pieces was more our issue and that looks a bit better now. - You mean keeping possession? Rather than lumping it long for Thomas to lose? Considering our lack of aerial strength up front, it is the only sensible thing to do. The ball retention was really good. So what if we keep the ball for a minute without doing a great deal with it? (assuming we're not losing, in the last few minutes etc.). It makes them run around chasing us. It tires them out. We also get to rest (something called resting in possession). Our ball retention work and our late goal are not coincidents. Giving the ball away is the biggest crime in football. - Movement was OK - but Donny set up a very deep line - which is problematic when the play is slow - it's a super defensive tactic, which a lot of teams struggle with. It can be improved, but it wasn't awful by any means. - Why shoot if you have two banks of four sitting in front of you blocking the goal? Move it around and try make a better chance. Shooting when you have almost no chance of scoring is just wasting possession. Thomas was particularly guilty of this. - Of the times we played ourselves into trouble (perhaps 3 or 4 times) there were about 15-20 times where we passed around their press and we had the chance to counter at speed. It was really impressive and Xemi helped massively with this. We sometimes looked a bit short of ideas in the final third, but that's often a downside of a one man forward line. 60 minutes onwards discard the above, where it really went downhill!
|
|
|
Post by ZeroTheHero on Dec 11, 2017 17:19:40 GMT
OK - so you'll admit we are slow (not the individual player's fault maybe, but certainly something anyone watching would pick up) and the set plays were dreadful (we should be able to fix them, but haven't), movement can be improved (but hasn't really been very much) and we were short of ideas in the final third.
Moving the ball from side to side along the back slowly - and occasionally losing it, which I agree is a crime (especially that close to goal) - is symptomatic of a lack of options. Half the time Doncaster didn't have to run about to try and get it, they just stayed where they were. Doncaster were as full of running as we were at the end - Ruff's late goal had nothing to do with that. It was a decent shot and a clumsy bit of keeping. No, lumping the ball up to Thomas isn't a good idea either - again, a lack of options. Pass the ball along the back, and eventually there is little choice (because you are being closed down and the movement in front of you is pretty poor) but to get shot of it. Retaining the ball at the back and hoofing it long to a player who isn't a target man are two sides of the same coin. Lack of effective movement, slow play and lack of options.
The nominal wide men cutting in is all very well, but as a result makes the middle of the pitch more congested. We have no real width and no pace out wide.
Yes of course don't shoot if there is very little chance of scoring (although Ruffs might dispute it!) but there were certainly instances when there was a chance of a shot from outside the penalty area and by constantly looking for a slightly better chance, no shot at all was taken. I'm not suggesting we shoot if there are 'two banks of four' between the player and the goal! Although there's a bloke who sits behind me who probably would! Mind you he shouts 'Shoot' when we don't even have the ball...
We might have 'had the chance to counter at speed' but (as already discussed) speed is one thing this squad as a whole is sadly lacking. And even then, one break we made we had two players clear on the left and the widest of them (Mowett I think) got the ball, stopped dead and passed it backwards! Which illustrates the point.
I'm sure from your expert point of view there were things to admire, but for me and the people sitting around me watching it in the stands it was a poor performance only redeemed by a late goal which meant we went away relatively happy.
|
|
|
Post by Marked Ox on Dec 11, 2017 17:29:37 GMT
I know you are a professional at this and I am 'just' a punter, but I really cannot believe you or the people you came with genuinely thought we played well for any extended period of the match on Saturday. Presumably you noticed the lack of pace? The odd decision making at free kicks? The slow sideways passing that achieved very little? The unambitious subs? The lack of movement off the ball? The reluctance to shoot? The playing ourselves into trouble? Maybe Mrs Zero had sprinkled some downers into my sandwiches! Let's break this down: - Set plays were admittedly dreadful. That was noted! But while it was a frustration, it's such an isolated part of the game it's something that can be fixed relatively quickly. Frankly defending set pieces was more our issue and that looks a bit better now. We make the same mistakes from set pieces most home games, attacking or defending and for something that can be fixed relatively quickly we aren't. As for defending set pieces we don 't look a bit better as if Doncaster players could head a ball with accuracy or power they would have scored the free headers they had from corners and free kicks, especially in the 1st half where they kept heading it gently straight at Simon Eastwood.
|
|
|
Post by ZeroTheHero on Dec 11, 2017 17:34:41 GMT
Let's break this down: - Set plays were admittedly dreadful. That was noted! But while it was a frustration, it's such an isolated part of the game it's something that can be fixed relatively quickly. Frankly defending set pieces was more our issue and that looks a bit better now. We make the same mistakes from set pieces most home games, attacking or defending and for something that can be fixed relatively quickly we aren't. As for defending set pieces we don 't look a bit better as if Doncaster players could head a ball with accuracy or power they would have scored the free headers they had from corners and free kicks, especially in the 1st half where they kept heading it gently straight at Simon Eastwood. Yes, good point. There were several free headers of which a better team would have taken advantage. I don't think our defence is fixed, really.
|
|
|
Post by akilham on Dec 11, 2017 18:57:26 GMT
Thank you Paul
|
|
|
Post by foley on Dec 11, 2017 19:00:31 GMT
Tiendalli - a couple of good interceptions when the ball was on the ground granted, but equally at least 2 horrendous mistakes when he let the ball bounce over him, leaving the Donny player clean through both times. Can't say I noticed that. Perhaps I'm focusing on the positives and not negatives as far as he is concerned because I thought he got a fair bit of unfair stick when he first came into the team. I generally agree with all that you have said Paul. Agree that whilst not there yet, Tiendalli is improving every game. Not surprising considering that he has not played for so long.
|
|
|
Post by pottersrightboot on Dec 11, 2017 19:19:11 GMT
I’m mixed on this one. There were some improvements on Saturday - but in the muck and nettles department.
I bet Clotet spent a lot of time on defensive shape while we were on training camp. How many chances did Doncaster actually have?
Plus we’ve looked sound defending set pieces for three games now.
Clotet is worried about lack of pace at back though. So there was far less box to box from Ruffels. Apart from when he scored 😉.
Our set pieces were diabolical. We had some real wit under Popeye - it’s almost as if scoring goals from corners isn’t in the Catalonian playbook.
|
|
|
Post by nottsyellow on Dec 11, 2017 19:35:00 GMT
Thanks Paul, your report always seem to capture the mood, feelings and opinions of the majority of fans. Why is there a flat feel at the moment? I don't know, have we become complacent with League 1 football? Last year, was there the excitement of the higher standard of football and getting to grips with the new division. The stats don't give us an answer. So far this season we have scored 21 goals at home, predominantly from open play whereas last year it took us to 18 March (Scunthorpe) to score 21, with a number from Maguire's free kicks and penalties. So from open play we are scoring many more goals at home. When we do score a goal it normally does come from a good outfield move of excellent football. If Henry had scored in the first half it would have been from an excellent bit of football right from the back. I think back to last season and there were some shockers at home like Walsall, Oldham and Bristol Rovers. So I do feel this flat feel is a bit of self inflicted by the fans and unfortunately, general complacency about higher standard football.
|
|
|
Post by bazzer9461 on Dec 11, 2017 20:02:14 GMT
Well written Paul but I have to confess I did leave before the end after I had been waiting for their player to get up them thinking as soon as the free kick was taken the red would blow for full time and as the red was crap I was p*ssed of he followed the letter of the law by adding to the extra time because of their player ( which Fergie can’t admit that was the reason for the added extra time on Tom of the extra time ) so as me, my mate and my grandson walked past the corner between the East and North stands and hearing the roar of a goal ( all roars are unique ) we danced around the corner part of the car park, then I thought the muppet in black did something correct and I missed Ruff’s goal.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 11, 2017 20:25:53 GMT
Thanks Paul, your report always seem to capture the mood, feelings and opinions of the majority of fans. Why is there a flat feel at the moment? I don't know, have we become complacent with League 1 football? Last year, was there the excitement of the higher standard of football and getting to grips with the new division. The stats don't give us an answer. So far this season we have scored 21 goals at home, predominantly from open play whereas last year it took us to 18 March (Scunthorpe) to score 21, with a number from Maguire's free kicks and penalties. So from open play we are scoring many more goals at home. When we do score a goal it normally does come from a good outfield move of excellent football. If Henry had scored in the first half it would have been from an excellent bit of football right from the back. I think back to last season and there were some shockers at home like Walsall, Oldham and Bristol Rovers. So I do feel this flat feel is a bit of self inflicted by the fans and unfortunately, general complacency about higher standard football. Why flat? Now there's a question because logically it shouldn't be because as you say we've scored as many goals at home already as it took us until mid March last season to achieve. Speed excites. Speed alone of course is no use. No cups runs. No Newcastle. No Swansea. Humiliation at Port Vale. Throwing a 2 goal lead away at home to Cheltenham. Lack of "characters" - no Danny Hylton. No Chris Maguire. Second season syndrome. No Swindon fixture. There's probably more.
|
|
|
Post by ZeroTheHero on Dec 11, 2017 20:45:19 GMT
Why is there a flat feel at the moment? That's an interesting question. The goals scored, points accumulated etc aren't at all bad, the league position is healthy. I wonder if it's because last season it felt as if we were building something as the season went on. This time around it all feels a bit 'temporary' to me. We have an owner who may or may not sell, may or may not spend significantly in January and is considerably less engaged with the supporters than he was. We have signed a load of older players who, while their experience is valuable, are in some cases definitely showing their age and some of whom quite possibly won't be with us next time. Add in long-term (and even in one case career ending) injuries to some of the better players (Nelson, Hall, Raglan and Ribeiro) plus a load more players who either we have never or hardly seen (Pekalski, Van Kessel, Mehmeti) due to injury or failing to step up (Roberts, Martin) plus the lack of any real characters on the pitch (Maguire, Hylton, Beano, even Turley!)and a poor home record then even despite what has for periods in certain games been excellent and attractive football it's actually quite hard work to watch at other times. Another (if more minor factor) is that I have to say that I don't think the Ultras relocating to the side of the stand has helped either. They go through their song repertoire enthusiastically (although the drum is getting a bit much at times) but they are tucked away in that corner and the East Stand seems less 'together' without the singers in the middle. I suspect because when they were in the middle the songs were joined in with by people on both sides of them - now there is only one 'side' who can do so and the songs very rarely get across the whole stand. It is true though, I guess, that we should be grateful that we are not happy about a winning performance against Doncaster in L1 rather than discussing a losing one against Hayes and Yeading in the Conference!
|
|
|
Post by holdsteady on Dec 11, 2017 21:20:41 GMT
Thanks Paul, your report always seem to capture the mood, feelings and opinions of the majority of fans. Why is there a flat feel at the moment? I don't know, have we become complacent with League 1 football? Last year, was there the excitement of the higher standard of football and getting to grips with the new division. The stats don't give us an answer. So far this season we have scored 21 goals at home, predominantly from open play whereas last year it took us to 18 March (Scunthorpe) to score 21, with a number from Maguire's free kicks and penalties. So from open play we are scoring many more goals at home. When we do score a goal it normally does come from a good outfield move of excellent football. If Henry had scored in the first half it would have been from an excellent bit of football right from the back. I think back to last season and there were some shockers at home like Walsall, Oldham and Bristol Rovers. So I do feel this flat feel is a bit of self inflicted by the fans and unfortunately, general complacency about higher standard football. Why flat? Now there's a question because logically it shouldn't be because as you say we've scored as many goals at home already as it took us until mid March last season to achieve. Speed excites. Speed alone of course is no use. No cups runs. No Newcastle. No Swansea. Humiliation at Port Vale. Throwing a 2 goal lead away at home to Cheltenham. Lack of "characters" - no Danny Hylton. No Chris Maguire. Second season syndrome. No Swindon fixture. There's probably more. It's a very northern division, so you don't get many rivalries/big away followings/games with any needle. Add in that, while you do get some bigger sides in this division than the one below, it's still not full of glamour fixtures and we have probably played most of the bigger sides already at home. League one is a harder league to get out of than where we just spent 15 years and the football is an improvement, but not massively more prestigious/glamorous. So we have second season syndrome in a more competitive league that isn't glamorous and is full of clubs that are a distance away and don't excite.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Dec 11, 2017 21:53:29 GMT
It is true though, I guess, that we should be grateful that we are not happy about a winning performance against Doncaster in L1 rather than discussing a losing one against Hayes and Yeading in the Conference! I'm going to hang on to that to sustain me through the cold bleak winter months.
|
|
|
Post by pottersrightboot on Dec 11, 2017 22:31:15 GMT
Give me a ‘flat’ season like this in comparison to 90% of the last 20.
Even Saturday was thrilling - well the last 30 seconds was...
|
|
|
Post by londonroader on Dec 12, 2017 9:28:07 GMT
Thanks Paul, your report always seem to capture the mood, feelings and opinions of the majority of fans. Why is there a flat feel at the moment? I don't know, have we become complacent with League 1 football? Last year, was there the excitement of the higher standard of football and getting to grips with the new division. The stats don't give us an answer. So far this season we have scored 21 goals at home, predominantly from open play whereas last year it took us to 18 March (Scunthorpe) to score 21, with a number from Maguire's free kicks and penalties. So from open play we are scoring many more goals at home. When we do score a goal it normally does come from a good outfield move of excellent football. If Henry had scored in the first half it would have been from an excellent bit of football right from the back. I think back to last season and there were some shockers at home like Walsall, Oldham and Bristol Rovers. So I do feel this flat feel is a bit of self inflicted by the fans and unfortunately, general complacency about higher standard football. Why flat? Now there's a question because logically it shouldn't be because as you say we've scored as many goals at home already as it took us until mid March last season to achieve. Speed excites. Speed alone of course is no use. No cups runs. No Newcastle. No Swansea. Humiliation at Port Vale. Throwing a 2 goal lead away at home to Cheltenham. Lack of "characters" - no Danny Hylton. No Chris Maguire. Second season syndrome. No Swindon fixture. There's probably more. There is no fan connection at the moment, it's like the club and the fans are drifting along, although he wasn't a favourite for me, we could do with a KT type person who got out there and connected the fan base.
|
|