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Post by bazzer9461 on Nov 7, 2017 8:13:11 GMT
I noticed a comment on another thread saying that after the Port Vale defeat our season was basically over. But I personally feel we still have a target of making the playoffs, but we really do need to add someone with a bit of dig in the middle of the park and maybe another option up front, even if it's a loan signing in January. Do we still think we can be there or thereabouts ? Course we can! We are only a couple of points off the play-offs. I was saying back in August that we are lacking upfront. We are now a third of the season gone and Thomas and Obika have scored six between them. That's not enough. We have seen enough big mobile target men now for everyone to see what is required at this level. We are also lacking pace - a lot of clever footballers but no-one who can frighten the opposition and stop them playing a high line. I’ve been saying for the last couple of seasons that we have a striker problem but then get told we have 4 Thomas, Obika, Ben Kessel and James Roberts but as you point out Thomas and Obika plus let’s include GVK that’s a total of 7 I think not a great return so come January I would hope(expect) at least a paid for striker to come in to hopefully score goals.
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Post by sarge on Nov 7, 2017 9:55:55 GMT
Maybe zach can answer the op with a few pearls of insider wisdom?
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Post by horseman on Nov 7, 2017 10:11:10 GMT
Course we can! We are only a couple of points off the play-offs. I was saying back in August that we are lacking upfront. We are now a third of the season gone and Thomas and Obika have scored six between them. That's not enough. We have seen enough big mobile target men now for everyone to see what is required at this level. We are also lacking pace - a lot of clever footballers but no-one who can frighten the opposition and stop them playing a high line. I’ve been saying for the last couple of seasons that we have a striker problem but then get told we have 4 Thomas, Obika, Ben Kessel and James Roberts but as you point out Thomas and Obika plus let’s include GVK that’s a total of 7 I think not a great return so come January I would hope(expect) at least a paid for striker to come in to hopefully score goals. Where is this striker and who is going to release such a Goalscorer? it amazes me that every season people clutch at straws with the Jan window and is Pep not on record saying we don't need and are fine?
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Post by oufcwaffle on Nov 7, 2017 10:25:22 GMT
Yeah we can pretty much kiss automatics goodbye, would need to average 2 points each game to stand a chance (83 total). Can imagine unless we get some quality in january then it will likely continue as we are at the minute. The odd 2-3 game win streak followed by a series of draws and losses.
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Post by CheltenhamYellow on Nov 7, 2017 11:12:24 GMT
I’ve been saying for the last couple of seasons that we have a striker problem but then get told we have 4 Thomas, Obika, Ben Kessel and James Roberts but as you point out Thomas and Obika plus let’s include GVK that’s a total of 7 I think not a great return so come January I would hope(expect) at least a paid for striker to come in to hopefully score goals. Where is this striker and who is going to release such a Goalscorer? it amazes me that every season people clutch at straws with the Jan window and is Pep not on record saying we don't need and are fine? Absolutely!! Why do people keep suggesting we can suddenly find a goal scorer who’s prepared to come here in January?! Get real, guys! We’re stuck with what we’ve got...
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Post by ox4eva on Nov 7, 2017 11:25:34 GMT
If we are stuck with what we have then unless a couple of loan signings can be made, then the formation needs to be changed so we get the best out of what we have.
I would hope Faz can have some influence on Pep..
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Post by bigcrompy on Nov 7, 2017 12:30:26 GMT
Where is this striker and who is going to release such a Goalscorer? it amazes me that every season people clutch at straws with the Jan window and is Pep not on record saying we don't need and are fine? Absolutely!! Why do people keep suggesting we can suddenly find a goal scorer who’s prepared to come here in January?! Get real, guys! We’re stuck with what we’ve got... Given Pep’s track record to date, where (i.e. which country) do you think he’ll be recruiting talent from..? The Swedish season runs April to November. You may not have heard of the goal-scorer he’ll be after (yet) unless your knowledge of the Scandinavian scene is comparable to Pep’s, but he may unearth a gem. My point being; why write January off when it’s evident we’re not playing the same market as most of the rest of the Football League?
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Post by yellowsmainfan16 on Nov 7, 2017 12:48:15 GMT
So then boys can we make the play offs can we f*ck our display againest port vale was atrocious and embarrassment to the club.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Nov 7, 2017 13:21:26 GMT
I’ve been saying for the last couple of seasons that we have a striker problem but then get told we have 4 Thomas, Obika, Ben Kessel and James Roberts but as you point out Thomas and Obika plus let’s include GVK that’s a total of 7 I think not a great return so come January I would hope(expect) at least a paid for striker to come in to hopefully score goals. Where is this striker and who is going to release such a Goalscorer? it amazes me that every season people clutch at straws with the Jan window and is Pep not on record saying we don't need and are fine? We need one 7 goals between the theee strikers not a great return
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Post by moomooland on Nov 7, 2017 13:40:39 GMT
We are a long way off promotion material at the moment. I would be happy with League 1 safety for now.
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Post by dabigfella on Nov 7, 2017 22:16:52 GMT
We are a long way off promotion material at the moment. I would be happy with League 1 safety for now. After tonight's defensive shambles I have to agree with you.
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Post by barryspang on Nov 7, 2017 22:25:33 GMT
Can anyone remember roughly what points total you need to stay up? About 50? Let's just get there as quick as possible.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Nov 7, 2017 22:54:51 GMT
Just don't get sucked into a relegation battle - get to 50 points as quickly as possible and get the hell out of dodge, because some of our score lines and performances this season in all competitions have been alarming. Properly, properly disjointed and horrific stuff and seemingly in blocks. This culture and mentality wouldn't have stood in more recent seasons and I'm concerned that it seems to be fairly routine now.
Let's just focus on 50 points. That has to be a target that everybody can agree on and unite behind.
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Post by peterdev on Nov 7, 2017 23:25:43 GMT
I think they are playing with of target of 50 points for the season. This season is imploding and our home form is becoming a worry again. We so so need a striker
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Post by ox4eva on Nov 8, 2017 0:46:31 GMT
I still believe we need a bit of steel in the middle of the park. We have nobody that is winning the 50/50 challenges and that leaves us exposed!
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 8, 2017 8:00:15 GMT
My point being; why write January off when it’s evident we’re not playing the same market as most of the rest of the Football League? What do they know that we don't?
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Post by bigcrompy on Nov 8, 2017 8:14:19 GMT
My point being; why write January off when it’s evident we’re not playing the same market as most of the rest of the Football League? What do they know that we don't? Come again...?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 8, 2017 8:16:27 GMT
Look what we signed so far: crocks, journeymen and Ricardhino.
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Post by thehorse on Nov 8, 2017 8:33:52 GMT
I haven’t seen as many games this season in comparison to the last two years due to my own playing commitments but what I have are so far has been completely contrasting performances (Cheltenham, Bradford and Rotherham) one very bad two decent enough.
What’s worth mentioning though is that a change of manager can often lead to a difficult period, we need to look no further than the start of Micheal Appleton’s reign where we struggled, badly at times, to string results and performances together.
He took over in similar circumstances as Clotet where it was reasonably late in the summer and had a squad of players that were not his own, he brought in a few players to give us numbers late in the day. Clotet has also brought in a number of players but it remains to be seen if these players will be here beyond the end of the season in the same way that many of the loans appleton brought in were surplus to requirements come January.
Calling for a change in manager, as many were during the difficult first few months of Appleton’s time in charge, seems crazy when there is no real threat of relegation as things stand. Constant changing of managers does not very often lead to successful teams, of course keeping the same one for a long period also does not guarantee success but it does give you a greater chance of it.
Of course we all want to kick on this season and get into the play offs after a great first season back at this level but the reality is, given the change in manager and players being sold, it was always likely to be tougher.
If this time next season the team are still showing the same inconsistencies and one dimensional playing style it may (and even thn may be not) be time to start asking difficult questions but the last few seasons have shown that patience with a manager can lead to positive things.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 8, 2017 8:41:21 GMT
A key question is whether the very effective scouting system that developed after Apples' first 6 months or so remains in place.
If so, one wonders why it wasn't used by Pep, if not one fears for the up-coming recruitment.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Nov 8, 2017 9:15:54 GMT
A key question is whether the very effective scouting system that developed after Apples' first 6 months or so remains in place. If so, one wonders why it wasn't used by Pep, if not one fears for the up-coming recruitment. The recruitment team seemed to have moved abroad, we’re missing out on the next generation of youngsters
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Nov 8, 2017 9:22:34 GMT
If so, one wonders why it wasn't used by Pep, if not one fears for the up-coming recruitment. Well unless the recruitment set up at the club (if it still exits) happened to identify a load of obscure players that coincidentally used to work with Clotet then I think we know that he fell back on his old contacts in the summer rather than use it. Of course, that's probably because he felt more comfortable getting players in who he had worked with before, but it has proved to be a very poor decision in the main. I'm a bit skeptical about the high hopes some people have for January. Given that we seem to be short of pace, width, striking power and midfield bite then it is going to have to be a hell of a transfer window!
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Post by thesecretposter on Nov 8, 2017 9:28:49 GMT
If we’re honest though would we want to go up in our current situation? Eales has already said he doesn’t have the cash to support us in the championship. I’d rather have a consolidation season under Cloet, see what happens money wise and assuming we have someone come in to provide more cash or have a new cash rich owner make a confident push for promotion via the autos next season. Just my own personal thoughts.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 8, 2017 9:37:37 GMT
If we’re honest though would we want to go up in our current situation? There is an argument that we should always strive to get as high up the pyramid as we can, whatever the circumstances. Personally, I don't see much point in sneaking up to the Championship via the play off final just to get tonked on a weekly basis and relegated next season. (Caveat: a winning Wembley final and the associated money would be great, but still). Forget the overly positive vibes ('we've got more points per game than this time last season', or whatever the straw being clutched at is). Yes, we had a good couple of runs but these are currently being outweighed by three successive disasters. We may win the next match, but should that be seen as a reason for renewed hope of a decent season? We are mid-table at best, in my opinion. If that's good enough for Mr Eales in his infinite patience, that's up to him, but it's evidently not good enough for many fans.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Nov 8, 2017 9:53:32 GMT
Never understood anybody saying they don't want to go up. Burton went up and stayed up and their entire ground only holds about 4k; Millwall went up after finishing sixth on the last day of the season and are fairly comfortable at present. Why on earth would nobody want to at least give it a go? Worst case scenario you come back down, pocket some serious money for a season and then use a chunk of it to be better off than you were when you were last in L1. The yo-yo method can be incredibly successful. I don't see why anybody would ever say no to that.
That said, I think our chances of this even being reality are pretty damn slim. Even if we get a couple of wins and sneak back into the top six we will probably then lose the next three 5-0.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 8, 2017 9:57:27 GMT
Never understood anybody saying they don't want to go up. Burton went up and stayed up and their entire ground only holds about 4k; Millwall went up after finishing sixth on the last day of the season and are fairly comfortable at present. Why on earth would nobody want to at least give it a go? Worst case scenario you come back down, pocket some serious money for a season and then use a chunk of it to be better off than you were when you were last in L1. The yo-yo method can be incredibly successful. I don't see why anybody would ever say no to that. Yeh, I see that argument. I guess I wouldn't want the embarrassment of being whipping boys week in, week out though, and our inconsistency this season and mediocre quality of squad suggests that might happen. Promotion followed by a 'brave' season and narrow relegation wouldn't be so bad, but I'm not that optimistic.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 8, 2017 10:08:25 GMT
If so, one wonders why it wasn't used by Pep, if not one fears for the up-coming recruitment. Well unless the recruitment set up at the club (if it still exits) happened to identify a load of obscure players that coincidentally used to work with Clotet then I think we know that he fell back on his old contacts in the summer rather than use it. Of course, that's probably because he felt more comfortable getting players in who he had worked with before, but it has proved to be a very poor decision in the main. I'm a bit skeptical about the high hopes some people have for January. Given that we seem to be short of pace, width, striking power and midfield bite then it is going to have to be a hell of a transfer window! Quite. How one hopes for a chink in the opacity.
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Post by charliesghost on Nov 8, 2017 10:15:04 GMT
I haven’t seen as many games this season in comparison to the last two years due to my own playing commitments but what I have are so far has been completely contrasting performances (Cheltenham, Bradford and Rotherham) one very bad two decent enough. What’s worth mentioning though is that a change of manager can often lead to a difficult period, we need to look no further than the start of Micheal Appleton’s reign where we struggled, badly at times, to string results and performances together. He took over in similar circumstances as Clotet where it was reasonably late in the summer and had a squad of players that were not his own, he brought in a few players to give us numbers late in the day. Clotet has also brought in a number of players but it remains to be seen if these players will be here beyond the end of the season in the same way that many of the loans appleton brought in were surplus to requirements come January. Calling for a change in manager, as many were during the difficult first few months of Appleton’s time in charge, seems crazy when there is no real threat of relegation as things stand. Constant changing of managers does not very often lead to successful teams, of course keeping the same one for a long period also does not guarantee success but it does give you a greater chance of it. Of course we all want to kick on this season and get into the play offs after a great first season back at this level but the reality is, given the change in manager and players being sold, it was always likely to be tougher. If this time next season the team are still showing the same inconsistencies and one dimensional playing style it may (and even thn may be not) be time to start asking difficult questions but the last few seasons have shown that patience with a manager can lead to positive things. No, he did not take over in similar circumstances to appleton. The latter inherited a demoralised, ageing squad, no scouting system, Mickey Lewis as a coach etc. Pep inherited a young, up and coming squad a scouting system renowned up and down the country and a quality coaching team of Faz and Chrissy. So he had literally everything in his favour, even including a month of pre season and a tour. Have a think about when most managers take over. It is because the players have been failing and they take over mid season. Pep took over because the players had done so well that his predecessor was poached in off season. Our League position is decent, as it should be, but the Cup competitions have been disastrous. I'd say that it is a 6 out of 10 thus far, with a Timeform 'squiggle ' because of the pronounced tendency of the side to produce horror shows, something that almost never happened under Appleton post the infamous Cambridge game. Pep made a lot in September of the team being 'ahead of schedule' and of 'building something special. For that to be the case, we will want to see continuous progress. With an occasional backwards step, for sure, but a clear overall direction of travel. I think the reason some are uneasy is because that progress is not crystal clear (yet). Since the opening two wins, both against teams is some turmoil, we have garnered 17 points in 14 games. That is bottom quartile form. Having inherited 90 per cent of a top 6 side, and been allowed to add 14 new players, clearly things need to improve, or the 6 out of 10 will slide towards a 5.
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Post by horseman on Nov 8, 2017 10:30:14 GMT
There have been some very short sighted views from those at the top, we bowed out of 2 cup competitions early doors with a whimper and then our manager states he wants to play a strong side in the mickey mouse cup that the majority do not care about just so the extra 20,000 can have a day out again. So the message to those 20,000 appears to be you don't need to bother to consider turning up at home games, just stay by your phones ready to dial the Wembley ticket office. As for the regular fans swallow the increased prices kiss adios to Auto promotion and the main cup competitions and just cling on to the hope that we might sneak a play off place as it's a given we'll win such a lottery.
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Post by Denissmithswig on Nov 8, 2017 10:33:52 GMT
I haven’t seen as many games this season in comparison to the last two years due to my own playing commitments but what I have are so far has been completely contrasting performances (Cheltenham, Bradford and Rotherham) one very bad two decent enough. What’s worth mentioning though is that a change of manager can often lead to a difficult period, we need to look no further than the start of Micheal Appleton’s reign where we struggled, badly at times, to string results and performances together. He took over in similar circumstances as Clotet where it was reasonably late in the summer and had a squad of players that were not his own, he brought in a few players to give us numbers late in the day. Clotet has also brought in a number of players but it remains to be seen if these players will be here beyond the end of the season in the same way that many of the loans appleton brought in were surplus to requirements come January. Calling for a change in manager, as many were during the difficult first few months of Appleton’s time in charge, seems crazy when there is no real threat of relegation as things stand. Constant changing of managers does not very often lead to successful teams, of course keeping the same one for a long period also does not guarantee success but it does give you a greater chance of it. Of course we all want to kick on this season and get into the play offs after a great first season back at this level but the reality is, given the change in manager and players being sold, it was always likely to be tougher. If this time next season the team are still showing the same inconsistencies and one dimensional playing style it may (and even thn may be not) be time to start asking difficult questions but the last few seasons have shown that patience with a manager can lead to positive things. No, he did not take over in similar circumstances to appleton. The latter inherited a demoralised, ageing squad, no scouting system, Mickey Lewis as a coach etc. Pep inherited a young, up and coming squad a scouting system renowned up and down the country and a quality coaching team of Faz and Chrissy. So he had literally everything in his favour, even including a month of pre season and a tour. Have a think about when most managers take over. It is because the players have been failing and they take over mid season. Pep took over because the players had done so well that his predecessor was poached in off season. Our League position is decent, as it should be, but the Cup competitions have been disastrous. I'd say that it is a 6 out of 10 thus far, with a Timeform 'squiggle ' because of the pronounced tendency of the side to produce horror shows, something that almost never happened under Appleton post the infamous Cambridge game. Pep made a lot in September of the team being 'ahead of schedule' and of 'building something special. For that to be the case, we will want to see continuous progress. With an occasional backwards step, for sure, but a clear overall direction of travel. I think the reason some are uneasy is because that progress is not crystal clear (yet). Since the opening two wins, both against teams is some turmoil, we have garnered 17 points in 14 games. That is bottom quartile form. Having inherited 90 per cent of a top 6 side, and been allowed to add 14 new players, clearly things need to improve, or the 6 out of 10 will slide towards a 5. Inherited 90% of a top 6 side?! How do you work that out when we finished 8th Charlie?
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