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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 22, 2017 19:59:01 GMT
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Post by nottsyellow on Oct 22, 2017 20:27:18 GMT
Paul, Re the 5 goals in the first half - I think Luton away in 1987/88 it was 3-2 to Luton at half time, eventually lost 7-4.
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Post by maggiesdad on Oct 22, 2017 20:29:56 GMT
I really enjoy your reports. Thanks.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 22, 2017 21:22:43 GMT
Paul, Re the 5 goals in the first half - I think Luton away in 1987/88 it was 3-2 to Luton at half time, eventually lost 7-4. I was there. Plastic pitch? Therefore not a real football match in my eyes.
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Post by manorlounger on Oct 22, 2017 21:46:41 GMT
Good read as ever Paul but I have to disagree about the penalty. Clear handball. The highlights show a raised arm and the ball striking with enough force to move the arm backwards. The shame was the poor kick by Lego. Had that gone in I think we might have taken the wind out of Rotherham enough to have gone on to win comfortably. As it was, a couple of defensive errors cost us dear.
Do agree with your opinion of the official, a lot of inconsistency and the card for Canice, completely wrong.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 22, 2017 22:58:36 GMT
Good read as ever Paul but I have to disagree about the penalty. Clear handball. The highlights show a raised arm and the ball striking with enough force to move the arm backwards. The shame was the poor kick by Lego. Had that gone in I think we might have taken the wind out of Rotherham enough to have gone on to win comfortably. As it was, a couple of defensive errors cost us dear. Do agree with your opinion of the official, a lot of inconsistency and the card for Canice, completely wrong. We'll have to disagree over the penalty. I've just replayed the incident again on the oufc official youtube clip at quarter speed and am 100% convinced there was no case of deliberate handball. I'd have gone ballistic if it had been given against us.
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Post by m on Oct 23, 2017 7:50:08 GMT
Perhaps one of our resident lurking referees could explain which law it was that Canice broke, and why neither Rotherham player was guilty?
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 12:45:11 GMT
Perhaps one of our resident lurking referees could explain which law it was that Canice broke, and why neither Rotherham player was guilty? Would come under 'delaying the restart of play' which is a cautionable offence. The argument that it was 'our ball' doesn't matter either.
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Post by sihath on Oct 23, 2017 13:11:32 GMT
Perhaps one of our resident lurking referees could explain which law it was that Canice broke, and why neither Rotherham player was guilty? Would come under 'delaying the restart of play' which is a cautionable offence. The argument that it was 'our ball' doesn't matter either. And yet refs never book players who spend ages celebrating a goal and taking forever to get back into their own half?
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 13:19:48 GMT
Would come under 'delaying the restart of play' which is a cautionable offence. The argument that it was 'our ball' doesn't matter either. And yet refs never book players who spend ages celebrating a goal and taking forever to get back into their own half? Nope. Timewasting needs to be clamped down on but it's incredibly hard to prove it most of the time. Canice made it very obvious and a easy opportunity to be booked on Saturday. The new thing I have noticed in recent seasons is players delaying the ball by trapping it and passing back slowly, sometimes can happen 2 or 3 times in one go. The actual seconds gained is minimal but it's very effective in winding opposition players and fans up, which is useful.
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Post by sihath on Oct 23, 2017 13:23:28 GMT
And yet refs never book players who spend ages celebrating a goal and taking forever to get back into their own half? Nope. Timewasting needs to be clamped down on but it's incredibly hard to prove it most of the time. Canice made it very obvious and a easy opportunity to be booked on Saturday. The new thing I have noticed in recent seasons is players delaying the ball by trapping it and passing back slowly, sometimes can happen 2 or 3 times in one go. The actual seconds gained is minimal but it's very effective in winding opposition players and fans up, which is useful. I thought he wasn't given the chance to delay play, he was swamped by their players within a couple of seconds of picking the ball up. Can't imagine a goalie being booked if a player tried to grab the ball off him to try and speed up a goal kick for example. Consistency is required.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Oct 23, 2017 14:07:11 GMT
I agree with Sihath. He simply picked the ball from the back of the net and was set upon within a couple of moments by two Rotherham players trying to wrestle the ball off him - he hadn't had the ball long enough to be wasting any time. The rest of the Rotherham team were celebrating - they weren't standing waiting for the kick off! It was a ludicrous booking from yet another poor (inconsistent) referee - I thought he was going to book one of the Rotherham players.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 23, 2017 14:42:34 GMT
I agree with Sihath. He simply picked the ball from the back of the net and was set upon within a couple of moments by two Rotherham players trying to wrestle the ball off him - he hadn't had the ball long enough to be wasting any time. The rest of the Rotherham team were celebrating - they weren't standing waiting for the kick off! It was a ludicrous booking from yet another poor (inconsistent) referee - I thought he was going to book one of the Rotherham players. If that can be deemed delaying the re-start of play then what on earth does the action of players standing smack bang in front of a free kick to prevent it being taken quickly constitute?. That happens I'd guess 10 times a game at least and is actually stopping the attacking team having any advantage unlike in this instance. Much much worse. And even if CC had transgressed, which I don't think he had, that does not excuse the behaviour of the Rotherham players and the referee's failure to book them too. He was bloody terrible.
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Post by yellowsarmy on Oct 23, 2017 14:49:45 GMT
Look canice booking is a easy booking as a referee he knows he is trying to delay the restart of play. Actually I thought the referee was largely ok. Rotherham were smart and spread the fouls around. Ledson and canice basically wrote their names in the referees book it was so obvious.
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 15:20:15 GMT
I agree with Sihath. He simply picked the ball from the back of the net and was set upon within a couple of moments by two Rotherham players trying to wrestle the ball off him - he hadn't had the ball long enough to be wasting any time. The rest of the Rotherham team were celebrating - they weren't standing waiting for the kick off! It was a ludicrous booking from yet another poor (inconsistent) referee - I thought he was going to book one of the Rotherham players. I will have to respectfully disagree with both of you. He knew what he was doing and actively moved the ball when the players went to grab it. He will get better at it though I'm sure!
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Oct 23, 2017 15:20:15 GMT
Look canice booking is a easy booking as a referee he knows he is trying to delay the restart of play. That's the discussion though. He hadn't had any time to try and do anything. He just picked the ball up, had it for about 2 seconds and was then manhandled. As Paul says, if that is delaying play, then there will be multiple bookings for standing in front of the ball at free kicks, taking ages over a throw in, the gk moving the ball to the other side for a goal kick, run/walking when being subbed etc etc. It simply wasn't a booking - and I actually thought justice was done when our penalty was saved as I did not see how that could possibly have been deliberate. On the other hand he missed numerous other certain fouls - some times he indicated a 'coming together' and others he played advantage when there wasn't any. It wasn't particularly against us, he was quite poor for both teams. Not down to Darren Deadman standards though, so I guess we ought to be thankful for small mercies!
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 15:23:51 GMT
Look canice booking is a easy booking as a referee he knows he is trying to delay the restart of play. That's the discussion though. He hadn't had any time to try and do anything. He just picked the ball up, had it for about 2 seconds and was then manhandled. As Paul says, if that is delaying play, then there will be multiple bookings for standing in front of the ball at free kicks, taking ages over a throw in, the gk moving the ball to the other side for a goal kick, run/walking when being subbed etc etc. It simply wasn't a booking - and I actually thought justice was done when our penalty was saved as I did not see how that could possibly have been deliberate. On the other hand he missed numerous other certain fouls - some times he indicated a 'coming together' and others he played advantage when there wasn't any. It wasn't particularly against us, he was quite poor for both teams. Not down to Darren Deadman standards though, so I guess we ought to be thankful for small mercies! I've just had a look at the highlights again, it's definitely longer than 2 seconds and he is actively obstructing them from getting the ball. It's the inconsistency of decisions that causes frustration from the fans. I have to agree with the ref though here.
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 15:34:56 GMT
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 23, 2017 15:44:25 GMT
That's the discussion though. He hadn't had any time to try and do anything. He just picked the ball up, had it for about 2 seconds and was then manhandled. As Paul says, if that is delaying play, then there will be multiple bookings for standing in front of the ball at free kicks, taking ages over a throw in, the gk moving the ball to the other side for a goal kick, run/walking when being subbed etc etc. It simply wasn't a booking - and I actually thought justice was done when our penalty was saved as I did not see how that could possibly have been deliberate. On the other hand he missed numerous other certain fouls - some times he indicated a 'coming together' and others he played advantage when there wasn't any. It wasn't particularly against us, he was quite poor for both teams. Not down to Darren Deadman standards though, so I guess we ought to be thankful for small mercies! I've just had a look at the highlights again, it's definitely longer than 2 seconds and he is actively obstructing them from getting the ball. It's the inconsistency of decisions that causes frustration from the fans. I have to agree with the ref though here. The Rotherham players should not be getting the ball. They are not the ones who will be kicking off from the centre spot. That's us. What would happen if a player of a team that was losing had a free kick awarded against them, grabbed the ball and placed it on the spot where they thought the kick should be taken indicating for the opposition to get on with it. I'd guess the referee would think they were trying to take charge. Surely it is up to the referee to decide whether CC was delaying the play without any interference from the opposition. Bet if they had not rushed at CC the incompetent in charge would have not shown a card. We all agree about inconsistency though. It is dreadful.
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Post by eraser on Oct 23, 2017 15:53:30 GMT
Can never understand why refs don't just stop the watch when a goal is scored or sub required. There would be no need for bookings for delaying the restart and no benefit to the team trying to time waste. I agree about defending players standing in front of free kicks - so annoying - the ref has two offences he can choose from there but it is rarely exercised so I guess that's consistent.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 23, 2017 16:09:24 GMT
Stop it. You're putting me in to "12 Angry Men" mode. Your role is obviously that of Henry Fonda.
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 16:20:12 GMT
Stop it. You're putting me in to "12 Angry Men" mode. Your role is obviously that of Henry Fonda. Haha apologies. Look I think the decision was harsh but I do feel for referees sometimes and I think this one was within his right here to award a yellow. The problem is that this decision will happen another 10 times and we wouldn't see the same result. The example you mentioned in the previous quote is fair and you will see plenty of examples where nothing is done and a few when something is. We as fans have so many different opinions of what a handball, foul is etc. It's no different for referees. In a ideal world we would see the same from every ref but we know that won't happen. I will get angry about decisions when I'm playing or watching football's but accept any referee who sticks to the book.
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Post by nottsyellow on Oct 23, 2017 16:56:51 GMT
Paul, Re the 5 goals in the first half - I think Luton away in 1987/88 it was 3-2 to Luton at half time, eventually lost 7-4. I was there. Plastic pitch? Therefore not a real football match in my eyes. Yes, it was a plastic pitch, but also ban on away fans, so definitely not a real football match. If I remember the match ticket cost £11, a hell of lot of money 30 years ago! Plus the cost of pretending to be a Luton fan and joining their membership scheme, albeit that was the year before to see that infamous 3-2 victory.
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Post by nottsyellow on Oct 23, 2017 17:01:19 GMT
That's the discussion though. He hadn't had any time to try and do anything. He just picked the ball up, had it for about 2 seconds and was then manhandled. As Paul says, if that is delaying play, then there will be multiple bookings for standing in front of the ball at free kicks, taking ages over a throw in, the gk moving the ball to the other side for a goal kick, run/walking when being subbed etc etc. It simply wasn't a booking - and I actually thought justice was done when our penalty was saved as I did not see how that could possibly have been deliberate. On the other hand he missed numerous other certain fouls - some times he indicated a 'coming together' and others he played advantage when there wasn't any. It wasn't particularly against us, he was quite poor for both teams. Not down to Darren Deadman standards though, so I guess we ought to be thankful for small mercies! I've just had a look at the highlights again, it's definitely longer than 2 seconds and he is actively obstructing them from getting the ball. It's the inconsistency of decisions that causes frustration from the fans. I have to agree with the ref though here. Which team's responsibility is it to get the ball from the net and take it back to the centre spot? If it is the defending team, then surely the Rotherham player should be booked. CC was only doing his job, albeit with a delay of 2 seconds! If it is the team that scored then yes CC is at fault.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 23, 2017 17:29:46 GMT
I was there. Plastic pitch? Therefore not a real football match in my eyes. Yes, it was a plastic pitch, but also ban on away fans, so definitely not a real football match. If I remember the match ticket cost £11, a hell of lot of money 30 years ago! Plus the cost of pretending to be a Luton fan and joining their membership scheme, albeit that was the year before to see that infamous 3-2 victory. Managed to get in to all of them when we were supposed to be banned.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 23, 2017 17:30:48 GMT
I've just had a look at the highlights again, it's definitely longer than 2 seconds and he is actively obstructing them from getting the ball. It's the inconsistency of decisions that causes frustration from the fans. I have to agree with the ref though here. Which team's responsibility is it to get the ball from the net and take it back to the centre spot?If it is the defending team, then surely the Rotherham player should be booked. CC was only doing his job, albeit with a delay of 2 seconds! If it is the team that scored then yes CC is at fault. What a very good question. I shouldn't assume anything.
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Post by yellowsarmy on Oct 23, 2017 17:32:21 GMT
I've just had a look at the highlights again, it's definitely longer than 2 seconds and he is actively obstructing them from getting the ball. It's the inconsistency of decisions that causes frustration from the fans. I have to agree with the ref though here. Which team's responsibility is it to get the ball from the net and take it back to the centre spot? If it is the defending team, then surely the Rotherham player should be booked. CC was only doing his job, albeit with a delay of 2 seconds! If it is the team that scored then yes CC is at fault. I don't think it's anyone's job but if someone else is going to do it quicker then the person holding the ball is delaying the restart of play. Canice was definitely doing that. And yes I agree standing in front of the ball on a free kick is delaying the restart too however our players showed no urgency i.e attempting to play the ball quickly whereas the Rotherham players were actively looking to hurry up the restart.
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Post by Yellow River on Oct 23, 2017 18:11:43 GMT
It’s not my intention to have a go at any individuals and I know that Jerome has to maintain a polite dignified presence, but some of the callers have absolutely nothing to say and then spend way too long saying it. Sometimes I think both those that did and didn’t go are vying for various awards: the most bleedin’ obvious statement of the week, or most nonsensical, or failure to mention key facts. And that’s before we get onto the texts.Ha, Ha, so true Paul, they talk in riddles, go round and round in circles. Barry's alright though, you tell he's passionate.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Oct 23, 2017 18:15:05 GMT
Very enjoyable read as always
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Post by grenobleroad on Oct 23, 2017 18:40:55 GMT
I've just had a look at the highlights again, it's definitely longer than 2 seconds and he is actively obstructing them from getting the ball. It's the inconsistency of decisions that causes frustration from the fans. I have to agree with the ref though here. Which team's responsibility is it to get the ball from the net and take it back to the centre spot? If it is the defending team, then surely the Rotherham player should be booked. CC was only doing his job, albeit with a delay of 2 seconds! If it is the team that scored then yes CC is at fault. Neithers. It's the referees but you will rarely see that happen.
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