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Post by ox4eva on Oct 5, 2017 21:04:30 GMT
We have been shite for years, thankfully many now realise that!
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Post by dubaiyellow on Oct 5, 2017 21:11:05 GMT
Southgate's comment are worrying: "we've scored 4/5 (whatever it is) very late goals in qualifying and its not a coincidence if we keep doing it". Thats against a group containing: Scotland Slovakia, Slovenia, Lithuania and Malta.
Hope thats not the game plan for Russia
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Post by foley on Oct 5, 2017 21:27:46 GMT
Sadly, some mugs will think In-ger-land can win it and will get all excited about going to Russia next year. And then come back all disappointed. Very few 'mugs' in my view. The media big it up. Most supporters surely reckon that we will do well to get through the group and the last 8 is the best we can do? Trouble is we may get beaten by a decent side like Iceland (yes they have some very good players) and we will be gutted. We have NO world class players except for Kane. We have to have on the bench Defoe, Lingard and Sturridge and have Oxlade Chamberlain in the team. There are no obvious better players. So after the first 11, we have a weak squad. So who seriously reckons we will do better than the last 16?
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Post by mcf86 on Oct 5, 2017 21:28:15 GMT
The formation of 6-0-4 was more suited to kick and rush, we got half of that right, just forgot to rush. At times I was laughing manically at England's pathetic attempts and was hoping Slovenia would score -to break the boredom and hope it stirred our bunch into some urgency.
Two England players gave so so performances, Kane and Rashford, the others should be ashamed and embarrassed, and as for Sterling, the £80M pound man(?) I don't know why Southgate kept him on for 84 or so minutes, masochistic tendencies?
Roll on Sunday, sunday lunch followed by chance to get some ZZZzzz
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Post by bigfella72 on Oct 5, 2017 21:33:30 GMT
Why the f*ck does Rashford take corners and free kicks? His delivery was awful tonight!
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Post by dannyc on Oct 5, 2017 21:45:12 GMT
I would add Rashford to the potential World Class list too. Think he has huge potential. Depends on your definition of world class. For me, no English player is in that category. Kane is probably the closest but to be considered at that level he needs to perform at an international tournament and at champions league level. He was woeful at Euro 16. Rashford is nowhere near world class IMO. kane is world class using the England excuse against him is unfair even suarez would be average in this England team .
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Post by foley on Oct 5, 2017 21:46:59 GMT
Why the f*ck does Rashford take corners and free kicks? His delivery was awful tonight! And Kane in the Euros? Surely we have players that can take a decent dead ball? The dead ball efforts today were terrible. Oh for a Beckham/ Gerrard
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Post by foley on Oct 5, 2017 22:03:11 GMT
I would add Rashford to the potential World Class list too. Think he has huge potential. Depends on your definition of world class. For me, no English player is in that category. Kane is probably the closest but to be considered at that level he needs to perform at an international tournament and at champions league level. He was woeful at Euro 16. Rashford is nowhere near world class IMO. Kane has the second best goals per game in the last year in Europe. Behind Messi but ahead of Neymar, Mbepe, Ronaldo. In the past 3 seasons in the PL he has scored 21, 25, 29 goals. In any other country he would be considered as World Class. Oh and 11 in 22 games for England....
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Post by Denissmithswig on Oct 5, 2017 22:13:52 GMT
Why the f*ck does Rashford take corners and free kicks? His delivery was awful tonight! Did you not know it's new thing to put your most dangerous attackers on corners, oh wait it isn't unless you are England! A professional footballer should be able to deliver a corner no matter who they are.
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Post by jambon46 on Oct 5, 2017 22:48:32 GMT
Kane has the second best goals per game in the last year in Europe. Behind Messi but ahead of Neymar, Mbepe, Ronaldo.
In the past 3 seasons in the PL he has scored 21, 25, 29 goals. In any other country he would be considered as World Class. Oh and 11 in 22 games for England.... I think they play in lower standard leagues than the prem and think Kane is a top player, there is a bigger void between the top and lower teams in France and Spain compared to the Prem, giving Messi, Ronaldo etc a good chance to rack up 30 a season
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Post by jambon46 on Oct 5, 2017 22:50:01 GMT
1.0 England in an entertaining game! I am talking sh*te of course.. But you were right, apart from the entertaining bit!
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Post by uptheus on Oct 6, 2017 6:07:52 GMT
One word, Henderson!
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 6, 2017 7:54:07 GMT
Sadly, some mugs will think In-ger-land can win it and will get all excited about going to Russia next year. And then come back all disappointed. Very few 'mugs' in my view. The media big it up. Most supporters surely reckon that we will do well to get through the group and the last 8 is the best we can do? Trouble is we may get beaten by a decent side like Iceland (yes they have some very good players) and we will be gutted. We have NO world class players except for Kane. We have to have on the bench Defoe, Lingard and Sturridge and have Oxlade Chamberlain in the team. There are no obvious better players. So after the first 11, we have a weak squad. So who seriously reckons we will do better than the last 16? Just wait till next may/june after we've beaten some sides easily. A tournament is like cat nip for a group England fans. Seen it so many times and see their disappointment so many times. You'd think they'd learn!
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Post by Boogaloo on Oct 6, 2017 9:35:08 GMT
Sadly, some mugs will think In-ger-land can win it and will get all excited about going to Russia next year. And then come back all disappointed. Very few 'mugs' in my view. The media big it up. Most supporters surely reckon that we will do well to get through the group and the last 8 is the best we can do? Trouble is we may get beaten by a decent side like Iceland (yes they have some very good players) and we will be gutted. We have NO world class players except for Kane. We have to have on the bench Defoe, Lingard and Sturridge and have Oxlade Chamberlain in the team. There are no obvious better players. So after the first 11, we have a weak squad. So who seriously reckons we will do better than the last 16? I don't think they'll even get out of the Group Stages. Typically in recent year, England romp the qualifiers and then disappoint in the final stages. This time they have made a bit of a pig's ear of qualifying, in what on paper should have been an easy group. I agree with Dubai Yellow in that Gareth Southgate's comments "we've scored 4/5 (whatever it is) very late goals in qualifying and its not a coincidence if we keep doing it", are indeed worring. With all due respect to Slovenia, after 60 mins the England fans should have been partying and looking forward to a trip to Russia, not waiting until injury time for Harry Kane to get them out of jail. Once they get to the World Cup though, they are going to meet much tougher opposition in the form of teams like Iceland, Algeria and Costa Rica. Still, they don't need to worry about the likes of Germany, France or Brazil - because the way the seedings work, they won't be due to meet until at least the quarter-finals - but the England players will be home by then.
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Post by cj on Oct 6, 2017 11:46:37 GMT
I can't get excited about England but I can get excited about chillies...
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Post by foley on Oct 6, 2017 12:09:42 GMT
So who seriously reckons we will do better than the last 16? I don't think they'll even get out of the Group Stages. Typically in recent year, England romp the qualifiers and then disappoint in the final stages. This time they have made a bit of a pig's ear of qualifying, in what on paper should have been an easy group. I agree with Dubai Yellow in that Gareth Southgate's comments "we've scored 4/5 (whatever it is) very late goals in qualifying and its not a coincidence if we keep doing it", are indeed worring. With all due respect to Slovenia, after 60 mins the England fans should have been partying and looking forward to a trip to Russia, not waiting until injury time for Harry Kane to get them out of jail. Once they get to the World Cup though, they are going to meet much tougher opposition in the form of teams like Iceland, Algeria and Costa Rica. Still, they don't need to worry about the likes of Germany, France or Brazil - because the way the seedings work, they won't be due to meet until at least the quarter-finals - but the England players will be home by then. England are likely to be in 'Pot 2'. This ,means that they are very likely to face France, Germany or Brazil in the group stages. In the group stages we will have 2 teams who are rated as worse than England. Now the draw is pretty important but I wouldn't bet against England getting through the group. Would you?
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Post by Young Money on Oct 7, 2017 8:06:23 GMT
Very few 'mugs' in my view. The media big it up. Most supporters surely reckon that we will do well to get through the group and the last 8 is the best we can do? Trouble is we may get beaten by a decent side like Iceland (yes they have some very good players) and we will be gutted. We have NO world class players except for Kane. We have to have on the bench Defoe, Lingard and Sturridge and have Oxlade Chamberlain in the team. There are no obvious better players. So after the first 11, we have a weak squad. So who seriously reckons we will do better than the last 16? I don't think they'll even get out of the Group Stages. Typically in recent year, England romp the qualifiers and then disappoint in the final stages. This time they have made a bit of a pig's ear of qualifying, in what on paper should have been an easy group. I agree with Dubai Yellow in that Gareth Southgate's comments "we've scored 4/5 (whatever it is) very late goals in qualifying and its not a coincidence if we keep doing it", are indeed worring. With all due respect to Slovenia, after 60 mins the England fans should have been partying and looking forward to a trip to Russia, not waiting until injury time for Harry Kane to get them out of jail. Once they get to the World Cup though, they are going to meet much tougher opposition in the form of teams like Iceland, Algeria and Costa Rica. Still, they don't need to worry about the likes of Germany, France or Brazil - because the way the seedings work, they won't be due to meet until at least the quarter-finals - but the England players will be home by then. Not sure if I’m reading your post right but are you saying that England made a ‘pigs ear’ of qualifying this time? They haven’t lost a game, have qualified with a game to spare, and top the group having only conceded what three goals in 9 games! They’re 6 points clear at the top for heavens sake! Easy group but they couldn’t have done much more really. That being said I agree that they’re boring, badly set up (I’d like to see the 3-5-2 that everyone plays nowadays with Kane and Rashford up top as a pair) and will probably crash and burn in the tournament.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Oct 7, 2017 8:38:13 GMT
They've no worse a chance than the last dozen England teams that have qualified for tournaments.
If a pig's ear is 6 points ahead with a game in hand I'll take it any time.
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Post by holdsteady on Oct 7, 2017 11:39:16 GMT
England haven't lost a qualifier for 38 games, 29 wins and 9 draws in that run ask the Dutch if they wouldn't like some of that.
I don't get the posts about people getting carried away when the team have just been criticised for only qualifying with a game to spare, that's a strange kind of hyperbole. We may not have qualified in great style but getting there does slightly increase your chances of achieving something, Argentina would swap with us given the chance.
It's not a great team/squad, but with a decent manager rather than a careerist FA yes man more worried about keeping some future role in that organisation than gambling and trying to achieve something, a bit of tweaking of the first team (dropping Henderson) then with some luck a decent run to the quarters and a bit of fun on the way is not implausible.
Most countries going to the World Cup would snap your hand off if you offered them Kane, Alli, Rashford, Stones and a couple of others. People dramatically over rate the standard of international teams barring a few sides like Germany and a couple of others, most of the teams we will face early on would struggle to stay in the premier league.
The champions league is a higher level than international football, the transfer market becoming truly international and the centralising of the worlds top players at a handful of clubs has seen to that, add in the fact that club sides train together all the time and you have to conclude that Real Madrid etc would walk the World Cup, so the criticism of what is essentially a part time England team is a bit strong for me, except for Southgate who is an excuse making FA t*at.
Watching international football and expecting Barcelona v Real Madrid standard is a bit like watching Oxford and expecting them to be as good as a top championship side, you have to lower your expectations of the quality a bit to enjoy it.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 7, 2017 20:59:38 GMT
If we have that talent, why are our games so painful to watch and our tactics so bereft and basic? The amount of money we have sloshing through the game should mean our national team should be the best of the best as the money can finance the game top to bottom. Somehow, we're easy pickings at tournaments.
Our young talent suffers the moment it gets to 20/21. They spend time in the stands or at awkward loans, largely flaming out wondering where it all went wrong.
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Post by eraser on Oct 7, 2017 21:09:30 GMT
If we have that talent, why are our games so painful to watch and our tactics so bereft and basic? The amount of money we have sloshing through the game should mean our national team should be the best of the best as the money can finance the game top to bottom. Somehow, we're easy pickings at tournaments. Our young talent suffers the moment it gets to 20/21. They spend time in the stands or at awkward loans, largely flaming out wondering where it all went wrong. Quite right. There is very little English talent in the PL because clubs can't afford to risk untried talent. The FA have to accept that the manager has to look at English players in the lower leagues - like Wales and Ireland etc... We need players who WANT to play with passion like the U20 and U21s and stop picking the prem prima donnas who only look good because of the expensive foreign imports they play with....
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 7, 2017 21:17:42 GMT
And also young players need to be braver and bin big clubs if they don't play. Thankfully, some young players are moving to Germany and Portugal to kick start their careers and develop rather stay in our academy system. I hope more take that step and make the big clubs worry that they aren't afraid to leave.
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Post by holdsteady on Oct 7, 2017 21:27:28 GMT
We obviously do have talent, what foreign players carry Kane and Alli?
I have watched a lot of the internationals over this weekend so far, can't say I have witnessed the awe inspiring quality and tactical genius that we obviously haven't shown much of from many countries.
People always say about throwing in the under21s/20s/19s, then when those players play they slag them off, virtually all of our current players came through that system recently so it's a nonsense comment.
Most international sides have a couple of good players then organise competent players around them into what you hope will prove to be an efficient system to get the best out of them, England don't have to do much more than that to have some quantifiable success, we have a few talented players and we should be able to fill the rest of the team with competent players in a system to try and get the best out of them, just need to understand international football is not the premier league, it's mostly a lot of dull, boring games made bigger by all the shite that goes on around it.
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Post by eraser on Oct 7, 2017 23:04:17 GMT
We obviously do have talent, what foreign players carry Kane and Alli? I have watched a lot of the internationals over this weekend so far, can't say I have witnessed the awe inspiring quality and tactical genius that we obviously haven't shown much of from many countries. People always say about throwing in the under21s/20s/19s, then when those players play they slag them off, virtually all of our current players came through that system recently so it's a nonsense comment. Most international sides have a couple of good players then organise competent players around them into what you hope will prove to be an efficient system to get the best out of them, England don't have to do much more than that to have some quantifiable success, we have a few talented players and we should be able to fill the rest of the team with competent players in a system to try and get the best out of them, just need to understand international football is not the premier league, it's mostly a lot of dull, boring games made bigger by all the shite that goes on around it. I hear what you're saying and I agree Kane and Dele are quality players for England. However Everton provided 4 players in the U20 World Cup win but none of them will ever get to the first team because they won't get a decent chance in the Prem League. I'm saying pick English players that have proven themselves at U20/21 level regardless of club status. The trouble is "Kenny" and " Lookman" won't sell shirts as well as "Walker" and "Vardy" as far as the FA are concerned.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 8, 2017 12:19:41 GMT
Alli is just 21 and has been successful so far. But he is playing first team football where the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lingard, etc are not consistently, if at all. The fundamental issue is game time and culture in England for our young players. Winks is just 20 but Spurs want their young players to play and he's showing what a talent he is. Do Man U? Do City? Do Arsenal? Nope.
Any good English player at those clubs may as well accept they'll be playing at Palace and Watford to kick start their careers, so why not go their earlier in their career?
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Post by saddletramp on Oct 8, 2017 12:42:33 GMT
Alli is just 21 and has been successful so far. But he is playing first team football where the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lingard, etc are not consistently, if at all. The fundamental issue is game time and culture in England for our young players. Winks is just 20 but Spurs want their young players to play and he's showing what a talent he is. Do Man U? Do City? Do Arsenal? Nope. Any good English player at those clubs may as well accept they'll be playing at Palace and Watford to kick start their careers, so why not go their earlier in their career? Pretty sure 19 year old Marcus Rashford has played more games for Manu than 21 year old(not 20) Winks has for Spurs. In fact Winks didn't make his debut for Spurs until he was 20. Jack Wilshire made his Arsenal debut aged 16,he made 35 appearances as an 18 year old in 2010. Winks does not start in big games for Spurs,so he is no different from Lindgard really(and has played less games this season) So while i agree with your point about players playing for England and not their clubs,as Winks is not a regular starter,he is no different from the players you mention.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 8, 2017 12:53:13 GMT
Alli is just 21 and has been successful so far. But he is playing first team football where the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Lingard, etc are not consistently, if at all. The fundamental issue is game time and culture in England for our young players. Winks is just 20 but Spurs want their young players to play and he's showing what a talent he is. Do Man U? Do City? Do Arsenal? Nope. Any good English player at those clubs may as well accept they'll be playing at Palace and Watford to kick start their careers, so why not go their earlier in their career? Pretty sure 19 year old Marcus Rashford has played more games for Manu than 21 year old(not 20) Winks has for Spurs. In fact Winks didn't make his debut for Spurs until he was 20. Jack Wilshire made his Arsenal debut aged 16,he made 35 appearances as an 18 year old in 2010. Winks does not start in big games for Spurs,so he is no different from Lindgard really(and has played less games this season) So while i agree with your point about players playing for England and not their clubs,as Winks is not a regular starter,he is no different from the players you mention. Winks isn't, but most importantly, is in good form from the game time he has had on the pitch so this season. Cannot say the same for the Ox or Lingard. I'm glad Hart has seemingly been dropped. The game has passed him by in the last 18 months and there are better keepers in the squad now. Sad to say, but he's not the special keeper he was once was. Butland deserves a chance to claim the jersey with Pickford.
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Post by mcf86 on Oct 10, 2017 10:22:26 GMT
Getting these 'talented young English players' who can't get game time, experience of playing together in a cup tournament - and playing against lower league opposition - would be a good idea, no?
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 10, 2017 12:07:31 GMT
Not really. Because the standard isn't good enough. Playing at away at Stevenage or Barnet hardly prepares you for a big game at Wembley Stadium does it?
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