|
Post by onlyme on Sept 13, 2017 20:48:09 GMT
Come on guys - what Charlie is saying is opening up a debate which can be argued both ways. Worryingly I do agree with him is where are our goals coming from ? Maguire is not a loss BUT we could learn from Mc... the guy who went to Fleetwood. His shoot when ever there is an opportunity needs to be worked into our game plan. Yes we can walk the ball in Arsenal style as per the second goal ( and a good goal it was ) but like Bradford's first there is merit in adopting this policy. Whilst not actually saying it was a great performance - the style of our football while needing an element of patience when watching - is very pleasing to the eye. Okay when at home you seek a more gun ho approach am sure on away days it will enable us to bag a significant number of points / wins. So not great but getting there ! A debate that includes garbage like Shrewsbury could have had a cricket score. Smells of negativity for some reason. Last night was fantastic.
|
|
|
Post by Kris Grebis on Sept 13, 2017 20:51:12 GMT
I think we have a very good squad now, I'm confident we can get in to the playoffs. We already have the players to score plenty of goals from the all over the pitch, but if we managed to sign a really quality number 9 I could see us challenging for automatics.
|
|
|
Post by paulbeasley on Sept 13, 2017 20:54:38 GMT
James Henry must make a cracking Paella to still be getting the nod. I think he actually does a lot of unspectacular graft that helps the team.
|
|
|
Post by tatabanya on Sept 13, 2017 22:05:23 GMT
I'd give Wes a 4 and Ledson an 8
|
|
|
Post by yellowg on Sept 13, 2017 22:34:30 GMT
I thought there were some really strong ratings across the pitch on both sides TBH.
There are 3 sure things in my life...death, taxes and supporting OUFC. What im witnessing so far allows me to justify the price increase on my ST. And i believe we are gonna finish in the play offs this time. There will be bumps in the road, but on the whole im a happy fan right now.
|
|
|
Post by followtheox (the original) on Sept 14, 2017 5:50:10 GMT
I'd give Wes a 4 and Ledson an 8 Wes a 4? He was excellent. Ledson had the usual energy but gave the ball away a lot.
|
|
|
Post by foley on Sept 14, 2017 7:25:22 GMT
I'd give Wes a 4 and Ledson an 8 Wes a 4? He was excellent. Ledson had the usual energy but gave the ball away a lot. As they say it is a game of opinions. I thought that Thomas had a reasonable game but we missed Obika (what Thomas does bring is the penalty area sharpness). Ledson 'gave the ball away a lot'. Really? He did two excellent Lundstrom cross field balls and then failed with one. He may have given the ball away occasionally (but this is League 1), but I reckon it is very harsh to suggest that he gave the ball away a lot.
|
|
|
Post by shosho on Sept 14, 2017 7:41:16 GMT
Not done one of these before so thought I would give it a go! Eastwood - 7 - usual, solid self. Certainly nothing he could have done with the first goal, and would have to be a worldy to save the second. Aside from the cross bar being hit, I can't remember him having much else to do! Mousinho - 7 - much better footballer than I realised. Obviously a decent CB but almost feels that limits him. Very good on the ball, enjoyed watching him carry it out of the defence. Compared to last season, we have plenty in that back 4 that have quality distribution. Not sure about the ducking for the second goal! Nelson - 7 - looks unflappable and a solid. Much like Mousinho, enjoyed seeing him carry the ball out of defence...however he tends to try a bit too much! Williamson - 7 - handled a very capable front line of Bradford well. No fuss, solid, and comfortably better than Dunkley. Ricardinho - 7 - outstanding quality on the ball. Great quality when playing the chip down the line (used to call it the wedge of doom with Skarz). An fantastic 1v1 defender and often comes away with the ball starting our counters. Only slight criticism being the space he allows for crosses...sometimes seems a little slow getting out to the player? Henry - 6 - have said on another thread, his work out of possession is good, but gets dispossessed regularly and not sure of his strengths going forwards? I had an image of a lower league beckham when he arrived (based on what a wolves fan had said). Not overly quick, but able to find some space and deliver some quality in to the box. Don't feel we have seen the best of him yet. Hall - 8 - a new player under Clotet, maybe it's the full pre season! Was quite unlucky with Bradford getting in last minute blocks, but is clearly our most electric player when going forward. Seems to have improved when he has his back to goal, receiving the ball to feet. Just a little more end product required, but was one of our top performers yesterday. Ledson - 7 - love watching him play! Some fantastic Lundstram-esque passes in the first half. Despite that he lost possession quite regularly as he always seemed to be the spare man in the centre. He is the perfect foil for Rothwell and does fantastic work in front of the back 4. Rothwell - 9 - for me, was MOTM. Ledson allows him to break from midfield. Effortlessly goes past players, is capable on both his left and right foot. Dynamic when out of possession, hassles the opposition. Was a fantastic all-round performance and hope to see some more! Payne - 8 - enjoy him whilst he's here! Infectious energy, always looking to move the ball forwards. Would imagine a lot of strikers keen to play with him! Appeared to be man marked but still had influence. Already the most assists in league 1, let's hope he stays beyond January! Thomas - 7 - not a natural lone striker, but a very good poacher. Similar to Hemmings, he comes alive in the box. Despite this Pep appears to have him pressing from the front which is good to see! Thought he battled well against the Bradford back 4 and converted his one chance of the game...following in from the shot. Subs GVK - 7 - still undecided. Has ability, and pace, but not sold on him yet. Had a couple of decent shots (for Thomas' goal). Think he is best placed as an impact sub rather than a starter. Mowatt - 7 - will be starting in a few weeks...but not sure who for! Very good on the ball and was part of a change in momentum on 60mins when himself and GVK came on. Ruffels - not on long enough! Sure I will have got some of the above wrong, but thought it was a great all round performance...can't remember the last time we played so well at home! Crikey. a 2-2 draw against an upper-mid table side at home and you see it as a "great performance" where you "can't remember us ever playing this well at home." Quite a statement. If this is true then we are clearly a very weak club who can only aspire to the odd day sharing the spoils with play-off contenders!! There will be plenty of teams this season who manage to do decently at home against Bradford City and get a point. To award our players almost '8' per person for a home draw implies that there is very little room for improvement. I think I'm a little more positive and aspire to a little more than that. So, where can we improve? 1. We haven't conceded that many yet, but we LOOK like conceding to decent teams. Against Shrewsbury it could have been a cricket score, we were that shaky (though to be fair they were a good side). Scunny and Bradford have created plenty against us (MK Dons as well). I've looked again at the various highlights packages and think that we are not managing to exert enough pressure on the ball in defensive midfield situations. 2. That seems to be happening mostly from wide areas where teams have space to play, cross, shoot. Maybe our wide midfielders are too high up the pitch to prevent that play; maybe the full-backs are not the strongest defensively. Either way, it is very noticeable that talented attacking players are finding space against us in wide and semi-wide areas. 3. We manage to create a lot of attacking ball, but not that many clear chances. Other than our two goals last night, I saw one pen claim, one Okish save and one or two other bits and pieces. For a "great performance" that is a measly return when they scored two and hit the cross bar with a great chance. As an away side, that is a decent tally. Most objective observers saw it as a fair result on the balance of play. Before I suggest some solutions, let's outline where we are good. We are moving the ball quicker than under Appleton. We have more quality in depth and therefore competition for places. We look less likely to be physically bullied (though this has not been truly tested yet). These upsides are pretty substantial and meaningful. The only way that I would compare us unfavourably to the second half of last season (when we were a top 5 side, remember) is the lack of potential match-winners. Maguire and McAleny were both that and they won us some tight matches which we are currently not winning. I suspect that Pep will be working hard on the training ground on defensive shape, so am hoping/ assuming that that will improve. In terms of attacking shape, I am - as I have said elsewhere - concerned that our strikers' movement is not quite sharp enough to give the attacking "3" behind the "1" sufficient options. I think that Thomas and Obika are doing fine, actually, but in a competitive league if we want to get into the top two then "fine" might not be enough. I think that we all need to be realistic about this squad. It is the best assembled at OUFC for 20 years, but it has not been built for "the future". Payne, Mowatt and Gino are on loan and in the shop window and will not stay here if we do not get promoted. Williamson is 33 pushing 34; Ricardinho 33; Wes is pushing 31; Mousinho is 31. That is 6 or 7 of our 11 from last night who are either on-loan or nearing the end of their careers. We have gone from having an average age of 22 to an average age of 29, with two of the youngsters bringing the average age down being on loan. So... this is the season for promotion for this squad. There is no point in judging them as a medium-term work in progress. They have to be judged in terms of making the top 6 right here and right now, and preferably the top 2. After 7 games, we are 7 points off the top and level on points with mid-table (a couple of teams have a game in hand). That is a reasonable start (7 out of 10 in my view) and hasn't precluded success this term at all. Furthermore, Pep has got the team moving the ball slickly (a big problem under MApp at times) which gives promise of better to come. But let's not blind ourselves as to the progress that needs to be made. Sheff United and Bolton Wanderers both started poorly last season - far more poorly than we have started this season. But they ended up as very hard-nosed, tough outfits who edged tight games and steam-rollered sides who couldn't match them physically. That's our benchmark... not just to be a team who on their day can give Bradford City a close game. There is no criticism of anyone in the above. I'm impressed by Pep, reckon we have the legendary top 6 budget, and the players are working hard. But let's remember the level of constancy and (relative) excellence it took to get promoted from League 2, narrowly on the last day of the season. Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. Firstly, for me, it was a great performance. Going in to the match, I think most would have taken a draw. Bradford on a decent run, had ended Peterborough's unbeaten run and had scored 13 goals in the last 4 games prior to us. Yes, going ahead and conceding at the end was gutting and I feel we should have managed our lead better, shutting down the game, however that doesnt take away from the fact that we moved the ball incredibly well, taking on players and playing confidently. When was the last time, at home, we achieved this? With regard to the ratings, were most of the players a 5 or a 6 in your eyes? In my comments I added caveats that whilst many, by my reckoning had above average individual performances, there was still areas we can work on. I gave both Payne and Hall an 8, whilst giving Rothwell a 9, the rest of the squad below this. When you consider the above, that for me, I part of the generation that has known very little success with oxford (being born late 80s), this is best squad, best football, and most capable team I have seen. All of this to the back drop of this summer with a huge turn around in players and staff, and after only 8 games, its tough not to be a little excited with what lies ahead. Im fully aware we can improve, but ultimately I think its worth acknowledging that we are also doing a lot of good. A draw against a strong Bradford team, in a game that we largely dominated and were 60 seconds away from winning...yeah, Im pretty happy with that (compared to the endless dross Ive suffered through my OUFC supporting career!) On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. When you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! I dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing.
|
|
|
Post by makv on Sept 14, 2017 7:48:31 GMT
Crikey. a 2-2 draw against an upper-mid table side at home and you see it as a "great performance" where you "can't remember us ever playing this well at home." Quite a statement. If this is true then we are clearly a very weak club who can only aspire to the odd day sharing the spoils with play-off contenders!! There will be plenty of teams this season who manage to do decently at home against Bradford City and get a point. To award our players almost '8' per person for a home draw implies that there is very little room for improvement. I think I'm a little more positive and aspire to a little more than that. So, where can we improve? 1. We haven't conceded that many yet, but we LOOK like conceding to decent teams. Against Shrewsbury it could have been a cricket score, we were that shaky (though to be fair they were a good side). Scunny and Bradford have created plenty against us (MK Dons as well). I've looked again at the various highlights packages and think that we are not managing to exert enough pressure on the ball in defensive midfield situations. 2. That seems to be happening mostly from wide areas where teams have space to play, cross, shoot. Maybe our wide midfielders are too high up the pitch to prevent that play; maybe the full-backs are not the strongest defensively. Either way, it is very noticeable that talented attacking players are finding space against us in wide and semi-wide areas. 3. We manage to create a lot of attacking ball, but not that many clear chances. Other than our two goals last night, I saw one pen claim, one Okish save and one or two other bits and pieces. For a "great performance" that is a measly return when they scored two and hit the cross bar with a great chance. As an away side, that is a decent tally. Most objective observers saw it as a fair result on the balance of play. Before I suggest some solutions, let's outline where we are good. We are moving the ball quicker than under Appleton. We have more quality in depth and therefore competition for places. We look less likely to be physically bullied (though this has not been truly tested yet). These upsides are pretty substantial and meaningful. The only way that I would compare us unfavourably to the second half of last season (when we were a top 5 side, remember) is the lack of potential match-winners. Maguire and McAleny were both that and they won us some tight matches which we are currently not winning. I suspect that Pep will be working hard on the training ground on defensive shape, so am hoping/ assuming that that will improve. In terms of attacking shape, I am - as I have said elsewhere - concerned that our strikers' movement is not quite sharp enough to give the attacking "3" behind the "1" sufficient options. I think that Thomas and Obika are doing fine, actually, but in a competitive league if we want to get into the top two then "fine" might not be enough. I think that we all need to be realistic about this squad. It is the best assembled at OUFC for 20 years, but it has not been built for "the future". Payne, Mowatt and Gino are on loan and in the shop window and will not stay here if we do not get promoted. Williamson is 33 pushing 34; Ricardinho 33; Wes is pushing 31; Mousinho is 31. That is 6 or 7 of our 11 from last night who are either on-loan or nearing the end of their careers. We have gone from having an average age of 22 to an average age of 29, with two of the youngsters bringing the average age down being on loan. So... this is the season for promotion for this squad. There is no point in judging them as a medium-term work in progress. They have to be judged in terms of making the top 6 right here and right now, and preferably the top 2. After 7 games, we are 7 points off the top and level on points with mid-table (a couple of teams have a game in hand). That is a reasonable start (7 out of 10 in my view) and hasn't precluded success this term at all. Furthermore, Pep has got the team moving the ball slickly (a big problem under MApp at times) which gives promise of better to come. But let's not blind ourselves as to the progress that needs to be made. Sheff United and Bolton Wanderers both started poorly last season - far more poorly than we have started this season. But they ended up as very hard-nosed, tough outfits who edged tight games and steam-rollered sides who couldn't match them physically. That's our benchmark... not just to be a team who on their day can give Bradford City a close game. There is no criticism of anyone in the above. I'm impressed by Pep, reckon we have the legendary top 6 budget, and the players are working hard. But let's remember the level of constancy and (relative) excellence it took to get promoted from League 2, narrowly on the last day of the season. Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. Firstly, for me, it was a great performance. Going in to the match, I think most would have taken a draw. Bradford on a decent run, had ended Peterborough's unbeaten run and had scored 13 goals in the last 4 games prior to us. Yes, going ahead and conceding at the end was gutting and I feel we should have managed our lead better, shutting down the game, however that doesnt take away from the fact that we moved the ball incredibly well, taking on players and playing confidently. When was the last time, at home, we achieved this? With regard to the ratings, were most of the players a 5 or a 6 in your eyes? In my comments I added caveats that whilst many, by my reckoning had above average individual performances, there was still areas we can work on. I gave both Payne and Hall an 8, whilst giving Rothwell a 9, the rest of the squad below this. When you consider the above, that for me, I part of the generation that has known very little success with oxford (being born late 80s), this is best squad, best football, and most capable team I have seen. All of this to the back drop of this summer with a huge turn around in players and staff, and after only 8 games, its tough not to be a little excited with what lies ahead. Im fully aware we can improve, but ultimately I think its worth acknowledging that we are also doing a lot of good. A draw against a strong Bradford team, in a game that we largely dominated and were 60 seconds away from winning...yeah, Im pretty happy with that (compared to the endless dross Ive suffered through my OUFC supporting career!) On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. View AttachmentWhen you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! View AttachmentI dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing. p*ss off with your facts
|
|
|
Post by tatabanya on Sept 14, 2017 7:50:19 GMT
I'd give Wes a 4 and Ledson an 8 Wes a 4? He was excellent. Ledson had the usual energy but gave the ball away a lot. He categorically was not excellent and I'm baffled anyone could say that. I'd love to know his dispossession stats from the game. Their goal also came from him being flat footed and tamely losing a ball into his feet. He is nowhere near the standard of the rest of the team and will soon be a distant memory. Good goal though, he certainly has a talent of being in the right place at the right time.
|
|
|
Post by dubaiyellow on Sept 14, 2017 8:00:37 GMT
Interesting to see so many different views on a lot of the players.
Mousinho for me was our MOM on Tuesday, thought he looked very composed and a real class act, faints here and there, dummies to make the space in tight situations and Cruyff turns a plenty - absolute quality.
|
|
|
Post by foley on Sept 14, 2017 8:16:51 GMT
But let's remember the level of constancy and (relative) excellence it took to get promoted from League 2, narrowly on the last day of the season. Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. When you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! I dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing. I think that these are quite interesting stats when considered that we have played some decent teams so far. Clearly Shrewsbury have had a fantastic start and are full of confidence. Bradford will in all likelihood be there or thereabouts as will Scunthorpe. Sure Oldham were poor (but are improving) as were Gillingham and MK /Pompey are half way teams. Pep has said that we are doing better than he expected at the moment based on it being a new style with new players. You would hope that the football and team will improve, suggesting that things could turn out well (the only worry is that what happens if we lose a couple and you can never predict that for a team)
|
|
|
Post by followtheox (the original) on Sept 14, 2017 12:16:10 GMT
Wes a 4? He was excellent. Ledson had the usual energy but gave the ball away a lot. He categorically was not excellent and I'm baffled anyone could say that. I'd love to know his dispossession stats from the game. Their goal also came from him being flat footed and tamely losing a ball into his feet. He is nowhere near the standard of the rest of the team and will soon be a distant memory. Good goal though, he certainly has a talent of being in the right place at the right time. I thought he worked his socks off. It was taking two or three of their players often to get the ball off him creating space for others. He worked to his strengths by hitting the channels well dragging defenders with him thus creating space. He battled against their defenders so that even if it was not possible to keep hold of the ball, he created second ball chances for our players. He showed desire to get his goal. I might add I am saying this as someone who has not been his biggest fan.
|
|
|
Post by followtheox (the original) on Sept 14, 2017 12:20:31 GMT
Wes a 4? He was excellent. Ledson had the usual energy but gave the ball away a lot. As they say it is a game of opinions. I thought that Thomas had a reasonable game but we missed Obika (what Thomas does bring is the penalty area sharpness). Ledson 'gave the ball away a lot'. Really? He did two excellent Lundstrom cross field balls and then failed with one. He may have given the ball away occasionally (but this is League 1), but I reckon it is very harsh to suggest that he gave the ball away a lot. Fair enough, i felt he gave the ball away more than he usually does. It is funny i remember him trying Lundstram passes that did not come off.
|
|
|
Post by shosho on Sept 14, 2017 12:29:40 GMT
Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. Firstly, for me, it was a great performance. Going in to the match, I think most would have taken a draw. Bradford on a decent run, had ended Peterborough's unbeaten run and had scored 13 goals in the last 4 games prior to us. Yes, going ahead and conceding at the end was gutting and I feel we should have managed our lead better, shutting down the game, however that doesnt take away from the fact that we moved the ball incredibly well, taking on players and playing confidently. When was the last time, at home, we achieved this? With regard to the ratings, were most of the players a 5 or a 6 in your eyes? In my comments I added caveats that whilst many, by my reckoning had above average individual performances, there was still areas we can work on. I gave both Payne and Hall an 8, whilst giving Rothwell a 9, the rest of the squad below this. When you consider the above, that for me, I part of the generation that has known very little success with oxford (being born late 80s), this is best squad, best football, and most capable team I have seen. All of this to the back drop of this summer with a huge turn around in players and staff, and after only 8 games, its tough not to be a little excited with what lies ahead. Im fully aware we can improve, but ultimately I think its worth acknowledging that we are also doing a lot of good. A draw against a strong Bradford team, in a game that we largely dominated and were 60 seconds away from winning...yeah, Im pretty happy with that (compared to the endless dross Ive suffered through my OUFC supporting career!) On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. When you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! I dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing. p*ss off with your facts Soz soz soz. Not sure what I was thinking
|
|
|
Post by tatabanya on Sept 15, 2017 14:07:51 GMT
He categorically was not excellent and I'm baffled anyone could say that. I'd love to know his dispossession stats from the game. Their goal also came from him being flat footed and tamely losing a ball into his feet. He is nowhere near the standard of the rest of the team and will soon be a distant memory. Good goal though, he certainly has a talent of being in the right place at the right time. I thought he worked his socks off. It was taking two or three of their players often to get the ball off him creating space for others. He worked to his strengths by hitting the channels well dragging defenders with him thus creating space. He battled against their defenders so that even if it was not possible to keep hold of the ball, he created second ball chances for our players. He showed desire to get his goal. I might add I am saying this as someone who has not been his biggest fan. Get the ball off him?! He never had the ball, he couldn't trap it. He does work hard and, as mentioned, has a scoring knack. But he is an awful footballer who is incapable of keeping hold of the ball. With Obika in our team I'm confident we would have been out of sight after 30 mins on Tuesday.
|
|
|
Post by charliesghost on Sept 15, 2017 15:20:38 GMT
Crikey. a 2-2 draw against an upper-mid table side at home and you see it as a "great performance" where you "can't remember us ever playing this well at home." Quite a statement. If this is true then we are clearly a very weak club who can only aspire to the odd day sharing the spoils with play-off contenders!! There will be plenty of teams this season who manage to do decently at home against Bradford City and get a point. To award our players almost '8' per person for a home draw implies that there is very little room for improvement. I think I'm a little more positive and aspire to a little more than that. So, where can we improve? 1. We haven't conceded that many yet, but we LOOK like conceding to decent teams. Against Shrewsbury it could have been a cricket score, we were that shaky (though to be fair they were a good side). Scunny and Bradford have created plenty against us (MK Dons as well). I've looked again at the various highlights packages and think that we are not managing to exert enough pressure on the ball in defensive midfield situations. 2. That seems to be happening mostly from wide areas where teams have space to play, cross, shoot. Maybe our wide midfielders are too high up the pitch to prevent that play; maybe the full-backs are not the strongest defensively. Either way, it is very noticeable that talented attacking players are finding space against us in wide and semi-wide areas. 3. We manage to create a lot of attacking ball, but not that many clear chances. Other than our two goals last night, I saw one pen claim, one Okish save and one or two other bits and pieces. For a "great performance" that is a measly return when they scored two and hit the cross bar with a great chance. As an away side, that is a decent tally. Most objective observers saw it as a fair result on the balance of play. Before I suggest some solutions, let's outline where we are good. We are moving the ball quicker than under Appleton. We have more quality in depth and therefore competition for places. We look less likely to be physically bullied (though this has not been truly tested yet). These upsides are pretty substantial and meaningful. The only way that I would compare us unfavourably to the second half of last season (when we were a top 5 side, remember) is the lack of potential match-winners. Maguire and McAleny were both that and they won us some tight matches which we are currently not winning. I suspect that Pep will be working hard on the training ground on defensive shape, so am hoping/ assuming that that will improve. In terms of attacking shape, I am - as I have said elsewhere - concerned that our strikers' movement is not quite sharp enough to give the attacking "3" behind the "1" sufficient options. I think that Thomas and Obika are doing fine, actually, but in a competitive league if we want to get into the top two then "fine" might not be enough. I think that we all need to be realistic about this squad. It is the best assembled at OUFC for 20 years, but it has not been built for "the future". Payne, Mowatt and Gino are on loan and in the shop window and will not stay here if we do not get promoted. Williamson is 33 pushing 34; Ricardinho 33; Wes is pushing 31; Mousinho is 31. That is 6 or 7 of our 11 from last night who are either on-loan or nearing the end of their careers. We have gone from having an average age of 22 to an average age of 29, with two of the youngsters bringing the average age down being on loan. So... this is the season for promotion for this squad. There is no point in judging them as a medium-term work in progress. They have to be judged in terms of making the top 6 right here and right now, and preferably the top 2. After 7 games, we are 7 points off the top and level on points with mid-table (a couple of teams have a game in hand). That is a reasonable start (7 out of 10 in my view) and hasn't precluded success this term at all. Furthermore, Pep has got the team moving the ball slickly (a big problem under MApp at times) which gives promise of better to come. But let's not blind ourselves as to the progress that needs to be made. Sheff United and Bolton Wanderers both started poorly last season - far more poorly than we have started this season. But they ended up as very hard-nosed, tough outfits who edged tight games and steam-rollered sides who couldn't match them physically. That's our benchmark... not just to be a team who on their day can give Bradford City a close game. There is no criticism of anyone in the above. I'm impressed by Pep, reckon we have the legendary top 6 budget, and the players are working hard. But let's remember the level of constancy and (relative) excellence it took to get promoted from League 2, narrowly on the last day of the season. Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. Firstly, for me, it was a great performance. Going in to the match, I think most would have taken a draw. Bradford on a decent run, had ended Peterborough's unbeaten run and had scored 13 goals in the last 4 games prior to us. Yes, going ahead and conceding at the end was gutting and I feel we should have managed our lead better, shutting down the game, however that doesnt take away from the fact that we moved the ball incredibly well, taking on players and playing confidently. When was the last time, at home, we achieved this? With regard to the ratings, were most of the players a 5 or a 6 in your eyes? In my comments I added caveats that whilst many, by my reckoning had above average individual performances, there was still areas we can work on. I gave both Payne and Hall an 8, whilst giving Rothwell a 9, the rest of the squad below this. When you consider the above, that for me, I part of the generation that has known very little success with oxford (being born late 80s), this is best squad, best football, and most capable team I have seen. All of this to the back drop of this summer with a huge turn around in players and staff, and after only 8 games, its tough not to be a little excited with what lies ahead. Im fully aware we can improve, but ultimately I think its worth acknowledging that we are also doing a lot of good. A draw against a strong Bradford team, in a game that we largely dominated and were 60 seconds away from winning...yeah, Im pretty happy with that (compared to the endless dross Ive suffered through my OUFC supporting career!) On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. View AttachmentWhen you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! View AttachmentI dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing. Thank you for - that rarest of beasts on some of these threads - a response that thoughtfully considers the issues rather than just tearfully bellowing out a neanderthal stomach-full of rage. Basically, I agree with you. Any considered read of my analysis would see that it is very much glass half full. Like Pep, and many posters on here, I think we are ahead of schedule. Probably a couple of points more than I expected thus far. I guess any difference is rooted in what I consider to be a cool-headed view on our raison d'etre this season. Effectively, what has happened is that some star youngsters have been sold over the last two summers to pay for what is now (at a guess) a promotion wage budget (top 6) That, in turn, instead of being spent on players who might one day prove to be saleable assets has been judiciously splurged on players who are ready to contribute to promotion right here and right now. If that promotion is not achieved then next summer we are highly likely to be in a less optimal situation to the one we are in right now. Roofey, Cod, lundstram and Johnson were the most bankable of the asset base that MApp built up. Because of our stadium situation our structural 'loss' is about 1.5 million a year. And more like 2.5 million if we want a top 6 budget. So having young potential stars to sell is crucial to our competitiveness right now. Of course it is POSSIBLE that Joe Rothwell will have a breakthrough season that sees him suddenly become worth something significant. Maybe Ledson. Maybe Nelson. But the cupboard is a little more bare than it has been for the last 18 months. Championship clubs buy potential from the lower leagues, not those like Robbie Hall or Eastwood who have already been up there but didn't really make it. So on those grounds this is the seminal year for promotion based on this cycle. If we do not get promoted a whole clutch of loanees and players in their early to mid 30s will either move on or just be a year older and slower. So, having made that assessment there is no point in us grading results and performances by a template that envisages an upper mid-table finish. We have to be looking at 80 points. I have noted - as have you - many ways in which the situation looks promising. Quicker movement of the ball; better strength in depth; more physicality. These are all 'biggies ' for a team aiming for 80 points. But just as teams aiming to win the Premier League or the Champions League have to judge themselves pretty harshly if they are to come out on top, so must it now be with us. Just as it was when MApp was equipped with a budget to get out of League 2. I have a concern over our defensive shape as a team, but reckon that Pep and Faz can sort it. Classic training ground stuff. My concern over attacking shape is a little more rooted. Are we decent going forward? Absolutely. Are we razor-sharp upfront? I don't think so. Flooding the midfield with 5 players will of course give us more possession. But the 1 upfront becomes such a crucial position. Remember how Chelsea have played all these years with Drogba and Costa? Some -ahem - less than astute posters on here claim that the 1 is not supposed to score goals or get the best chances. But your stats show clearly that our centre forward IS getting the best chances. Two questions: 1) is he putting them away on a consistent basis? And 2) is he able to create chances for himself? If the answer to these questions is 'no' then that might be the difference between 70 points and 80 points. As I have said elsewhere, I have no animus against Thomas or Obika. They are the best centre forwards we have had in over a decade. But in my view Mooney and Moody offered more, and if we had either of them in their prime I'd be pretty excited about our promotion chances right now.
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Sept 16, 2017 10:01:44 GMT
Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. Firstly, for me, it was a great performance. Going in to the match, I think most would have taken a draw. Bradford on a decent run, had ended Peterborough's unbeaten run and had scored 13 goals in the last 4 games prior to us. Yes, going ahead and conceding at the end was gutting and I feel we should have managed our lead better, shutting down the game, however that doesnt take away from the fact that we moved the ball incredibly well, taking on players and playing confidently. When was the last time, at home, we achieved this? With regard to the ratings, were most of the players a 5 or a 6 in your eyes? In my comments I added caveats that whilst many, by my reckoning had above average individual performances, there was still areas we can work on. I gave both Payne and Hall an 8, whilst giving Rothwell a 9, the rest of the squad below this. When you consider the above, that for me, I part of the generation that has known very little success with oxford (being born late 80s), this is best squad, best football, and most capable team I have seen. All of this to the back drop of this summer with a huge turn around in players and staff, and after only 8 games, its tough not to be a little excited with what lies ahead. Im fully aware we can improve, but ultimately I think its worth acknowledging that we are also doing a lot of good. A draw against a strong Bradford team, in a game that we largely dominated and were 60 seconds away from winning...yeah, Im pretty happy with that (compared to the endless dross Ive suffered through my OUFC supporting career!) On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. View AttachmentWhen you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! View AttachmentI dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing. Thank you for - that rarest of beasts on some of these threads - a response that thoughtfully considers the issues rather than just tearfully bellowing out a neanderthal stomach-full of rage. Basically, I agree with you. Any considered read of my analysis would see that it is very much glass half full. Like Pep, and many posters on here, I think we are ahead of schedule. Probably a couple of points more than I expected thus far. I guess any difference is rooted in what I consider to be a cool-headed view on our raison d'etre this season. Effectively, what has happened is that some star youngsters have been sold over the last two summers to pay for what is now (at a guess) a promotion wage budget (top 6) That, in turn, instead of being spent on players who might one day prove to be saleable assets has been judiciously splurged on players who are ready to contribute to promotion right here and right now. If that promotion is not achieved then next summer we are highly likely to be in a less optimal situation to the one we are in right now. Roofey, Cod, lundstram and Johnson were the most bankable of the asset base that MApp built up. Because of our stadium situation our structural 'loss' is about 1.5 million a year. And more like 2.5 million if we want a top 6 budget. So having young potential stars to sell is crucial to our competitiveness right now. Of course it is POSSIBLE that Joe Rothwell will have a breakthrough season that sees him suddenly become worth something significant. Maybe Ledson. Maybe Nelson. But the cupboard is a little more bare than it has been for the last 18 months. Championship clubs buy potential from the lower leagues, not those like Robbie Hall or Eastwood who have already been up there but didn't really make it. So on those grounds this is the seminal year for promotion based on this cycle. If we do not get promoted a whole clutch of loanees and players in their early to mid 30s will either move on or just be a year older and slower. So, having made that assessment there is no point in us grading results and performances by a template that envisages an upper mid-table finish. We have to be looking at 80 points. I have noted - as have you - many ways in which the situation looks promising. Quicker movement of the ball; better strength in depth; more physicality. These are all 'biggies ' for a team aiming for 80 points. But just as teams aiming to win the Premier League or the Champions League have to judge themselves pretty harshly if they are to come out on top, so must it now be with us. Just as it was when MApp was equipped with a budget to get out of League 2. I have a concern over our defensive shape as a team, but reckon that Pep and Faz can sort it. Classic training ground stuff. My concern over attacking shape is a little more rooted. Are we decent going forward? Absolutely. Are we razor-sharp upfront? I don't think so. Flooding the midfield with 5 players will of course give us more possession. But the 1 upfront becomes such a crucial position. Remember how Chelsea have played all these years with Drogba and Costa? Some -ahem - less than astute posters on here claim that the 1 is not supposed to score goals or get the best chances. But your stats show clearly that our centre forward IS getting the best chances. Two questions: 1) is he putting them away on a consistent basis? And 2) is he able to create chances for himself? If the answer to these questions is 'no' then that might be the difference between 70 points and 80 points. As I have said elsewhere, I have no animus against Thomas or Obika. They are the best centre forwards we have had in over a decade. But in my view Mooney and Moody offered more, and if we had either of them in their prime I'd be pretty excited about our promotion chances right now. I'll summarise for those who haven't the time for Charlie's usual guff! Charlie thanks shosho for being nearly as clever as him (high praise indeed). Charlie pretends that he was right all along. His comments about selling off all our assets and getting older inferior players in was now the perfect business plan after all. All hail Pep and DE. We now have a top 6 budget and should be promoted. This lays the foundations for criticism for every lost point from here on in. It is promotion or bust this season. We sold Roofe (former WBA) Lunny (former Everton) etc but no one will touch Ledson and Hall because they've already failed at the highest level. Everything is wonderful and Charlie couldn't be happier despite the old, injury prone, foreign imports, the facts that we could have conceded a cricket score against half the league and DE is still a bastard!! Good news though, no mention of Water Eaton for once!!!
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 16, 2017 10:05:08 GMT
Have you thought of getting a room?
|
|
|
Post by yellows321 on Sept 16, 2017 11:10:38 GMT
Crikey. a 2-2 draw against an upper-mid table side at home and you see it as a "great performance" where you "can't remember us ever playing this well at home." Quite a statement. If this is true then we are clearly a very weak club who can only aspire to the odd day sharing the spoils with play-off contenders!! There will be plenty of teams this season who manage to do decently at home against Bradford City and get a point. To award our players almost '8' per person for a home draw implies that there is very little room for improvement. I think I'm a little more positive and aspire to a little more than that. So, where can we improve? 1. We haven't conceded that many yet, but we LOOK like conceding to decent teams. Against Shrewsbury it could have been a cricket score, we were that shaky (though to be fair they were a good side). Scunny and Bradford have created plenty against us (MK Dons as well). I've looked again at the various highlights packages and think that we are not managing to exert enough pressure on the ball in defensive midfield situations. 2. That seems to be happening mostly from wide areas where teams have space to play, cross, shoot. Maybe our wide midfielders are too high up the pitch to prevent that play; maybe the full-backs are not the strongest defensively. Either way, it is very noticeable that talented attacking players are finding space against us in wide and semi-wide areas. 3. We manage to create a lot of attacking ball, but not that many clear chances. Other than our two goals last night, I saw one pen claim, one Okish save and one or two other bits and pieces. For a "great performance" that is a measly return when they scored two and hit the cross bar with a great chance. As an away side, that is a decent tally. Most objective observers saw it as a fair result on the balance of play. Before I suggest some solutions, let's outline where we are good. We are moving the ball quicker than under Appleton. We have more quality in depth and therefore competition for places. We look less likely to be physically bullied (though this has not been truly tested yet). These upsides are pretty substantial and meaningful. The only way that I would compare us unfavourably to the second half of last season (when we were a top 5 side, remember) is the lack of potential match-winners. Maguire and McAleny were both that and they won us some tight matches which we are currently not winning. I suspect that Pep will be working hard on the training ground on defensive shape, so am hoping/ assuming that that will improve. In terms of attacking shape, I am - as I have said elsewhere - concerned that our strikers' movement is not quite sharp enough to give the attacking "3" behind the "1" sufficient options. I think that Thomas and Obika are doing fine, actually, but in a competitive league if we want to get into the top two then "fine" might not be enough. I think that we all need to be realistic about this squad. It is the best assembled at OUFC for 20 years, but it has not been built for "the future". Payne, Mowatt and Gino are on loan and in the shop window and will not stay here if we do not get promoted. Williamson is 33 pushing 34; Ricardinho 33; Wes is pushing 31; Mousinho is 31. That is 6 or 7 of our 11 from last night who are either on-loan or nearing the end of their careers. We have gone from having an average age of 22 to an average age of 29, with two of the youngsters bringing the average age down being on loan. So... this is the season for promotion for this squad. There is no point in judging them as a medium-term work in progress. They have to be judged in terms of making the top 6 right here and right now, and preferably the top 2. After 7 games, we are 7 points off the top and level on points with mid-table (a couple of teams have a game in hand). That is a reasonable start (7 out of 10 in my view) and hasn't precluded success this term at all. Furthermore, Pep has got the team moving the ball slickly (a big problem under MApp at times) which gives promise of better to come. But let's not blind ourselves as to the progress that needs to be made. Sheff United and Bolton Wanderers both started poorly last season - far more poorly than we have started this season. But they ended up as very hard-nosed, tough outfits who edged tight games and steam-rollered sides who couldn't match them physically. That's our benchmark... not just to be a team who on their day can give Bradford City a close game. There is no criticism of anyone in the above. I'm impressed by Pep, reckon we have the legendary top 6 budget, and the players are working hard. But let's remember the level of constancy and (relative) excellence it took to get promoted from League 2, narrowly on the last day of the season. Hi Charlie, thanks for the response. Am quite happy to further qualify my statements. Firstly, for me, it was a great performance. Going in to the match, I think most would have taken a draw. Bradford on a decent run, had ended Peterborough's unbeaten run and had scored 13 goals in the last 4 games prior to us. Yes, going ahead and conceding at the end was gutting and I feel we should have managed our lead better, shutting down the game, however that doesnt take away from the fact that we moved the ball incredibly well, taking on players and playing confidently. When was the last time, at home, we achieved this? With regard to the ratings, were most of the players a 5 or a 6 in your eyes? In my comments I added caveats that whilst many, by my reckoning had above average individual performances, there was still areas we can work on. I gave both Payne and Hall an 8, whilst giving Rothwell a 9, the rest of the squad below this. When you consider the above, that for me, I part of the generation that has known very little success with oxford (being born late 80s), this is best squad, best football, and most capable team I have seen. All of this to the back drop of this summer with a huge turn around in players and staff, and after only 8 games, its tough not to be a little excited with what lies ahead. Im fully aware we can improve, but ultimately I think its worth acknowledging that we are also doing a lot of good. A draw against a strong Bradford team, in a game that we largely dominated and were 60 seconds away from winning...yeah, Im pretty happy with that (compared to the endless dross Ive suffered through my OUFC supporting career!) On to the playing aspects. Ive added some of this to another thread also. Point 1 - with regards to quality of shots, we are the 4th best defensively, and the 3rd best at attacking. In short, we give up low quality shots, whilst creating high quality shots for ourselves. View AttachmentWhen you look at the shot numbers, 52% of our shouts are on target (best in the league), whilst only 26% of the oppositions attempts have been on target (2nd best in the league). So we clearly have a pretty decent defense and attack. Only around 25% of the attempts on target have resulted in a goal, so we clearly have an area to improve with our finishing. However, Obika is in the top 5 players in the football league for quality of chances...he just hasnt put them away! View AttachmentI dont think its unreasonable to suggest before too long we will start converting these opportunities created. If the above is to go by, if this season is the one where we have to have a tilt at promotion, then based on the 8 games of data, we seem to be well placed to do that. We can obviously improve, but for me, its been an impressive start that deserves our backing. And to summarise this: Checkmate.
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Sept 16, 2017 11:48:44 GMT
Have you thought of getting a room? Frequently!!
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 16, 2017 12:03:09 GMT
Padded walls, perspex windows?
|
|