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Post by TheNewManor on Sept 8, 2017 20:09:23 GMT
In my dream world we'd be on the site of the Ice Rink. Relocate the ice rink to where we are currently. As I say - this is purely dreaming. Well I'm not parking my bloody car on the railway lines that's for sure. Bus routes into Oxford from all over. Numerous Park & Rides plus a train station 2 mins away. All they need is parking for disabled, staff & players. There is the new westgate if people really are that shiftless. Everyone can get to it easy and pubs are numerous. Great site...if your not bone idle.
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Post by worleox42 on Sept 8, 2017 20:35:00 GMT
Can we go back to the manor please.... miss that ground
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 8, 2017 20:35:23 GMT
Conversely if we leave it late to enter into negotiations, or explore alternatives, Kassam may believe he has leverage. He could take the stance that the club currently has no (immediate) viable alternatives, so the club either pays what he wants, or the team is forced to play God knows where, which could prove to be even more costly. Sickens me to write that. Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the situation or the possible outcomes? Which I kinda hope I am. Regardless, the club absolutely needs to be more forward thinking and explore all options before entering any kind of negotiations. I agree with Charlie re: Kassam caring about his Oxford United legacy. It sounds more like a romantics dream than anything else. Besides, would one action grant him absolution in the eyes of supporters? Doubtful. Certainly not mine anyway. Parasite. Is their really any situation where uncle Firoz doesn't have the whip hand? The land is worth more as housing/flats to him than as a football ground/conference centre so he is probably quite happy if we see the lease out then can't agree terms to continue there, in the meantime we are paying over the odds for an unfinished and poorly maintained trio of stands around a football pitch. I have a feeling he will put the rent up high enough at the end of the current lease that it either forces the then owners to pay an exorbitant price to get a bad deal to "own" 3 stands and a football pitch or walk away and he gets bulldozers in followed by the developers. On the plus side he could well be dead by then. It's worrying that the club don't appear to be doing much about the stadium situation but then I suppose it's not really Eales problem as he will be gone by then, the ground debate has been put on ice till the current ownership situation has played out, so I suppose there isn't a lot of point us plebs chatting/worrying about it. He can't put the price up, the current contract states that should no new deal be agreed then we roll onto another 25 year lease same terms I believe (may be wrong). So very much leverage in our favour if he does want out or to develop the land. Also those two hotels are far more profitable with a conference center next to them. And there is a clause stating it has to be used for sporting use, which the council is unlikely to over rule if we hadn't found a new site to play at
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Post by holdsteady on Sept 8, 2017 20:51:11 GMT
Is their really any situation where uncle Firoz doesn't have the whip hand? The land is worth more as housing/flats to him than as a football ground/conference centre so he is probably quite happy if we see the lease out then can't agree terms to continue there, in the meantime we are paying over the odds for an unfinished and poorly maintained trio of stands around a football pitch. I have a feeling he will put the rent up high enough at the end of the current lease that it either forces the then owners to pay an exorbitant price to get a bad deal to "own" 3 stands and a football pitch or walk away and he gets bulldozers in followed by the developers. On the plus side he could well be dead by then. It's worrying that the club don't appear to be doing much about the stadium situation but then I suppose it's not really Eales problem as he will be gone by then, the ground debate has been put on ice till the current ownership situation has played out, so I suppose there isn't a lot of point us plebs chatting/worrying about it. He can't put the price up, the current contract states that should no new deal be agreed then we roll onto another 25 year lease same terms I believe (may be wrong). So very much leverage in our favour if he does want out or to develop the land. Also those two hotels are far more profitable with a conference center next to them. And there is a clause stating it has to be used for sporting use, which the council is unlikely to over rule if we hadn't found a new site to play at The council? The same council that Kassam has run rings around for 15 to 20 years now? Hotels in Oxford are profitable whatever, have you seen the prices to stay in one? Plus he doesn't run them, they pay him rent the same as we do. If the best deal we can get is the same absolutely awful one we have then that's not much leverage is it?
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Post by Denissmithswig on Sept 8, 2017 20:55:34 GMT
Well I'm not parking my bloody car on the railway lines that's for sure. Bus routes into Oxford from all over. Numerous Park & Rides plus a train station 2 mins away. All they need is parking for disabled, staff & players. There is the new westgate if people really are that shiftless. Everyone can get to it easy and pubs are numerous. Great site...if your not bone idle. I've always said the ice rink would be the dream site for our stadium. Right in the heart of the city, easy to get to by public transport from all around the county. Can park at a number of park and ride sites and get a bus in. Plenty of pubs around for pre match drink plus food options. People say about parking but the manor was a nightmare to park and I remember parking around a mile away some games when I went with my dad. It would also be more likely to get the casual fan through the gate and tourists with being more visible of where the club is located. That all said it will never happen due to the cost of land.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 8, 2017 20:55:49 GMT
He can't put the price up, the current contract states that should no new deal be agreed then we roll onto another 25 year lease same terms I believe (may be wrong). So very much leverage in our favour if he does want out or to develop the land. Also those two hotels are far more profitable with a conference center next to them. And there is a clause stating it has to be used for sporting use, which the council is unlikely to over rule if we hadn't found a new site to play at The council? The same council that Kassam has run rings around for 15 to 20 years now? Hotels in Oxford are profitable whatever, have you seen the prices to stay in one? Plus he doesn't run them, they pay him rent the same as we do. If the best deal we can get is the same absolutely awful one we have then that's not much leverage is it? It is if he decides to take the money there and then rather than over 25 years. He was close to agreeing a renegotiation of terms with oxvox before the take over came in, no reason to say he wouldn't again. I think if he really wanted to develop the site and move us elsewhere, he would have made it happen, he's not stupid if he thought it was in his best interests he would have put an offer to de while they were on good terms, to pay x amount towards a new ground. He is a man that makes things happen and goes and gets it if he wants it, not waits to be asked. I have a feeling a deal could be done, I don't think though he will do it with Darryl now
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Post by TheNewManor on Sept 8, 2017 20:58:37 GMT
Bus routes into Oxford from all over. Numerous Park & Rides plus a train station 2 mins away. All they need is parking for disabled, staff & players. There is the new westgate if people really are that shiftless. Everyone can get to it easy and pubs are numerous. Great site...if your not bone idle. I've always said the ice rink would be the dream site for our stadium. Right in the heart of the city, easy to get to by public transport from all around the county. Can park at a number of park and ride sites and get a bus in. Plenty of pubs around for pre match drink plus food options. People say about parking but the manor was a nightmare to park and I remember parking around a mile away some games when I went with my dad. It would also be more likely to get the casual fan through the gate and tourists with being more visible of where the club is located. That all said it will never happen due to the cost of land. We can only but dream I'm glad you agree, it would be superb. Great away experience too - I'm embarrassed when I see away fans drinking beers at superbowl or whatever it's called.
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Post by londonroader on Sept 9, 2017 7:07:02 GMT
I've always said the ice rink would be the dream site for our stadium. Right in the heart of the city, easy to get to by public transport from all around the county. Can park at a number of park and ride sites and get a bus in. Plenty of pubs around for pre match drink plus food options. People say about parking but the manor was a nightmare to park and I remember parking around a mile away some games when I went with my dad. It would also be more likely to get the casual fan through the gate and tourists with being more visible of where the club is located. That all said it will never happen due to the cost of land. We can only but dream I'm glad you agree, it would be superb. Great away experience too - I'm embarrassed when I see away fans drinking beers at superbowl or whatever it's called. I also think it's a dream, but one that is never going to come to fruition. Despite the supposed to be good links into town it would be a nightmare, parking would be expensive and very restricted, land would also be very expensive, would the colleges want all the unwashed football fans mingling with their goldmine tourists, this IS Oxford and we are not high on the list of priorities in this city.
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Post by foley on Sept 9, 2017 8:06:06 GMT
I am genuinely interested in why FK's position will weaken as the licence reduces in time.
To me OUFC currently have zero alternative. So it has no negotiation position. Based on this the club will have to sign a new licence where the price will inevitably increase (quite significantly if it is 25 years after the last one).
This 'elephant in the room' could almost finish the club if a solution is not found (and I am not sure that FK would be too upset if that were to happen ,,,
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Post by foley on Sept 9, 2017 8:09:33 GMT
It's worrying that the club don't appear to be doing much about the stadium situation but then I suppose it's not really Eales problem as he will be gone by then, the ground debate has been put on ice till the current ownership situation has played out, so I suppose there isn't a lot of point us plebs chatting/worrying about it. He can't put the price up, the current contract states that should no new deal be agreed then we roll onto another 25 year lease same terms I believe (may be wrong). So very much leverage in our favour if he does want out or to develop the land. Also those two hotels are far more profitable with a conference center next to them. And there is a clause stating it has to be used for sporting use, which the council is unlikely to over rule if we hadn't found a new site to play at If you are right then that is a little better. I would be surprised if that is the case. Does anybody know what the contract actually says?
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 9, 2017 8:17:48 GMT
He can't put the price up, the current contract states that should no new deal be agreed then we roll onto another 25 year lease same terms I believe (may be wrong). So very much leverage in our favour if he does want out or to develop the land. Also those two hotels are far more profitable with a conference center next to them. And there is a clause stating it has to be used for sporting use, which the council is unlikely to over rule if we hadn't found a new site to play at If you are right then that is a little better. I would be surprised if that is the case. Does anybody know what the contract actually says? I'm sure that's been mentioned several times before from people that have seen the lease , like u say only a little better but it does turns the odds slightly back in our favour
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Post by holdsteady on Sept 9, 2017 9:03:02 GMT
If you are right then that is a little better. I would be surprised if that is the case. Does anybody know what the contract actually says? I'm sure that's been mentioned several times before from people that have seen the lease , like u say only a little better but it does turns the odds slightly back in our favour So you don't know that's the case? I can't see it being true, Kassam dictated the terms so why would he have allowed it?
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Post by scoob on Sept 9, 2017 9:27:46 GMT
Ok we're a lot further from the premier league than Brentford, but not so far that some big lumps of cash could get us there.
Making crowds almost irrelevant.
Years ago Wenger funded the Emirates by not spending on players, but nowadays the tv money evens out the teams a lot more so crowd sizes don't matter so much between the big clubs. [/quote]If that's the case why are so many teams - Chelsea, Spurs, West Ham etc all looking to leave classic, old-style grounds where they are actually more likely to win games (see Spurs) for bigger capacities? There has to be a financial decision behind that.
Having said that, I do wonder why these teams keep looking to build 'only' 60,000 seater stadiums. Old Trafford holds what 75,000 and I'm sure big teams in London could aggressively sell tickets to day-trippers etc, and would be sold out for the 7-10 'big games' a season as well. If they went for 90,000 thats an extra 30%, which in revenue terms is quite a lot!?[/quote]
Chelsea, Spurs and West Ham are aiming to compete at the head of the Premiership and having a significant run in Europe. Brentford realistically can't maintain that level of football so are probably satisfied with just being in the Premiership. Overall revenue will play a part in maintaining the larger club's position in the Premiership/Europe.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 9, 2017 9:35:40 GMT
I'm sure that's been mentioned several times before from people that have seen the lease , like u say only a little better but it does turns the odds slightly back in our favour So you don't know that's the case? I can't see it being true, Kassam dictated the terms so why would he have allowed it? Because at the time it would pretty much insure he gets 50 years rent rather than just the 25 ! Like I've said if Kassam wants something he will go and get it, look what he's achieved with no council backing at the kassam. If he wanted to bash it down and build housing, we would be well underway with sorting a move. And just because u don't know something doesn't mean it isn't correct 😉. I'm sure mark, myles and maybe if memory serves me right slappy ? Have seen the lease and could confirm.
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Post by scoob on Sept 9, 2017 9:52:50 GMT
I suppose that we are similar to Brentford, they don't really own their stadium but at least they do not pay rent and they retain catering revenue.
Despite finishing 9th in the Championship in the 2015/16 they averaged only 10,300 with 6,137 STs. This may have been hindered by their capacity of only 12,500. Their ticket sales produced revenue of only £3M with retail and catering adding revenue (NOT PROFIT) of £400k each. League/FA/TV produced revenue of £4.6M with another couple of million from other sources of revenue giving total revenue of under £10M. They spent almost £18M on Staff Costs alone. They gained about £11M from player trading (significant increase on previous season so probably not regular) but still made a loss of £12.6M.
Brentford's owner realises that they are unlikely to have long term sustainability at Championship level even with 20K stadium so its shit or bust by going for the Premiership to sort out their finances in the short to medium term. They are developing the Griffin Park area and adding to their fixed assets by doing so but the owe the owner £49M against a current value of £51M. Based on the above figures the additional 5,000 capacity, if fully utilised, will add revenue of around £2M TO £3M in the Championship so having little effect on losses. Promotion to the Premiership would make a massive difference in revenue for at least one season with parachute payments helping them to maintain Championship position for a few more seasons (POSSIBLY). The extra 2,500 seats which have now been cut, but presumably could be added later, would have little effect on their fortunes.
Matthew Benham is highly intelligent and has spent his career assessing risk so I assume that he considers it worth the risk of massive overspending to reap the potential gains from the Premiership.
All of this probably backs up Eales assertion that we can not be sustainable in the Championship without significant additional investment. It also backs up Charlie's assertion that we can only be truly sustainable at higher levels by moving to a more beneficial location.
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Post by scoob on Sept 9, 2017 10:00:29 GMT
If you are right then that is a little better. I would be surprised if that is the case. Does anybody know what the contract actually says? I'm sure that's been mentioned several times before from people that have seen the lease , like u say only a little better but it does turns the odds slightly back in our favour You are right oufcyellows. The club has a right to renew the licence on identical terms subject to the annual rent increase laid down in the terms of the licence agreement. They can exercise this right only once.
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Post by plonker on Sept 9, 2017 12:38:24 GMT
While it's good news that the rent can't be increased, it doesn't give us leverage, an advantage to use during negotiations, it simply gives us the option of continuing on the same terrible terms as now. Kassam could not even bother picking up the phone and the best we could hope for is more of the same.
We need options and Kassam needs to be aware of those options before the current lease expires. If nothing changes in terms of viable alternatives, then we'll still be in the same poor position we are now.
God, can you imagine the state of the Kasslum in 25 years...
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Post by mcf86 on Sept 9, 2017 12:51:23 GMT
While it's good news that the rent can't be increased, it doesn't give us leverage, an advantage to use during negotiations, it simply gives us the option of continuing on the same terrible terms as now. Kassam could not even bother picking up the phone and the best we could hope for is more of the same. We need options and Kassam needs to be aware of those options before the current lease expires. If nothing changes in terms of viable alternatives, then we'll still be in the same poor position we are now. God, can you imagine the state of the Kasslum in 25 years... Doubt it will still be there, better chance the owner will be brown bread though!
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Post by whingit on Sept 9, 2017 13:16:24 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs?
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Post by makv on Sept 9, 2017 13:46:18 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs? Along the lines of when "that woman" finally popped her clogs? No it wouldn't.
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Post by gingerox on Sept 9, 2017 17:33:54 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs? Does anyone know what happens with the stadium if it were to (unfortunately) occur?
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 9, 2017 17:35:54 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs? Does anyone know what happens with the stadium if it were to (unfortunately) occur? Well unless he's very generous in his will I should imagine, it along with his other businesses would pass to his kids. 1 of which is a big oufc fan
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Post by mcf86 on Sept 9, 2017 18:52:35 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs? Does anyone know what happens with the stadium if it were to (unfortunately) occur? Heard on good authority that meester kasham is planning to have a 3 sided colossal concrete pyramid built for his final resting place, it would have been 4 sided but ever the penny pincher...
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Post by holdsteady on Sept 10, 2017 0:00:08 GMT
£4.50 for a plastic bottle of Carlsberg at the wake, other than that details are a bit sketchy.
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Post by ox9hp18 on Sept 10, 2017 7:50:54 GMT
Surely we could hire a hit man for FK & make it look like suicide after it all it happens all the time in the movies SIMPLES £10k is peanuts spread amongst us all
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Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 10, 2017 8:08:16 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs? Along the lines of when "that woman" finally popped her clogs? No it wouldn't. Let's leave Princess Diana out of this, please.
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Post by HeyMcAleny on Sept 11, 2017 20:19:25 GMT
Would it be inappropriate and in bad taste to have some sort of carnival when our landlord does pop his clogs? Thank you very much, Thank you very much, That's the nicest thing that anyone's ever done for me!
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Post by harrycarry on Dec 8, 2017 19:09:57 GMT
Please can someone remind me, without the can of worms, what the options are in 8 years time. I really just want to understand what the chance is that we will be homeless. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Eaststandboy on Dec 8, 2017 19:21:11 GMT
Please can someone remind me, without the can of worms, what the options are in 8 years time. I really just want to understand what the chance is that we will be homeless. Thanks in advance. I believe we have the option of another 25 years.
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