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Post by foley on Sept 3, 2017 14:01:18 GMT
Maybe this should be a question for Oxvox.
The ground issue seems to have gone quiet. Somebody made the comment that DE is probably looking to get Promotion and get out so maybe his view is leave the 'Elephant in the room' issue to any new owner.
This to me is the biggest issue to whether OUFC can ever have a chance at being successful in the Championship or not.
So correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that there are probably two options- get a lease on the ground/ conference facility whereby the club do the maintenance and can expand the ground. Or look elsewhere and get our own ground.
Alternatively a very wealthy owner buys FK out of the whole site (pretty unlikely).
Will thsi all be put on hold until DE leaves or is a lot going on behind the scenes still?
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Post by oxfordboy on Sept 3, 2017 14:03:41 GMT
The arse end of nowhere
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Post by mcf86 on Sept 3, 2017 18:55:23 GMT
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so can only guess. What has been noticeable imo is that DE seems to have 'chilled out' and found some new vigour and fire in his belly, maybe, just maybe, Uruguayan businessman Juan Sartori has unfinished business at Grenoble road? Who knows, DE might have done a deal based on the club being in the championship? Might explain DE's more relaxed demeanour.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on Sept 4, 2017 21:02:07 GMT
Readings berween the lines, I do not think we are any closer to being in a favourable position on the ground than we were 5 years ago - despite various stakeholders, including Oxvox doing the upmost on behalf of us all.
It may be stating the obvious but until such time we achieve a favourable position for OUFC on the stadium, we will not have sustained success over the medium/long term.
It's depressingly predictable and Kassam remains a parasite.
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Post by foley on Sept 5, 2017 9:13:20 GMT
Readings berween the lines, I do not think we are any closer to being in a favourable position on the ground than we were 5 years ago - despite various stakeholders, including Oxvox doing the upmost on behalf of us all. It may be stating the obvious but until such time we achieve a favourable position for OUFC on the stadium, we will not have sustained success over the medium/long term. It's depressingly predictable and Kassam remains a parasite. If you are right then I think the club needs to start looking at alternative sites. The only thing certain I that the current situation is not sustainable and unless something is done it jeopardises the whole future of the club.
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Post by charliesghost on Sept 6, 2017 23:00:05 GMT
Readings berween the lines, I do not think we are any closer to being in a favourable position on the ground than we were 5 years ago - despite various stakeholders, including Oxvox doing the upmost on behalf of us all. It may be stating the obvious but until such time we achieve a favourable position for OUFC on the stadium, we will not have sustained success over the medium/long term. It's depressingly predictable and Kassam remains a parasite. If you are right then I think the club needs to start looking at alternative sites. The only thing certain I that the current situation is not sustainable and unless something is done it jeopardises the whole future of the club. Three years too late. Ironically, back then we were told by some widescreen on here: A) that a new stadium would take 3-5 years, which was 'too long" and B) that Water Eaton was in the green belt and that therefore no planning permission would ever be granted there. The smugness with which these two points were made by people with no knowledge or understanding of the modern OUFC planning environment was shameful. They were wrong then and, again ironically, they're still wrong now. The next mistake is to think that 'buying the kasdam stadium without the full ability to do with it what we wish might be a good idea. It's not. It's just effectively paying Firoz 20-30 years rent upfront without being able to sell it for development if the option of moving becomes available (It will). The only sound strategy is to recognise that a new deal has to make sense from FK's point of view. Not because of some b*llshit notion of his legacy, but in cold hard cash. OUFC has two leverage points: 1) the licence is running down (7 years left) and FK will be in a progressively weaker position as that happens 2) any developments of the overflow car park will be much more valuable if linked to Greater Leys through the land currently occupied by a a county council special needs school. Finally, there is the obvious point that the current site would be twice as valuable as resi development as a football stadium. Work it out from there.
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Post by TheNewManor on Sept 7, 2017 14:15:13 GMT
In my dream world we'd be on the site of the Ice Rink. Relocate the ice rink to where we are currently. As I say - this is purely dreaming.
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Post by Mark on Sept 7, 2017 18:50:22 GMT
Thoughts ? . Ok we're a lot further from the premier league than Brentford, but not so far that some big lumps of cash could get us there. Making crowds almost irrelevant. Years ago Wenger funded the Emirates by not spending on players, but nowadays the tv money evens out the teams a lot more so crowd sizes don't matter so much between the big clubs.
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Post by TheNewManor on Sept 7, 2017 19:30:11 GMT
It might be true that gate receipts might be less significant in club finances in the Prem, however I think it shows ill will if you do not care for it. Fair enough if you can't afford to build for a higher capacity or you don't have the fan base. But put less emphasis on attendances because of the decreasing % it adds on your balance sheet, to me indicates you're in football for the wrong reasons. Lofty ideals maybe, but you have to maintain some moral standards.
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Post by holdsteady on Sept 7, 2017 19:41:42 GMT
Thoughts ? . Ok we're a lot further from the premier league than Brentford, but not so far that some big lumps of cash could get us there. Making crowds almost irrelevant. Years ago Wenger funded the Emirates by not spending on players, but nowadays the tv money evens out the teams a lot more so crowd sizes don't matter so much between the big clubs. Just shows how much uncle Firoz was ahead of his time, he scaled back the ground to unfinished and has just been waiting for all the luddites to catch up. Firoz Kassam - futurist, visionary and slum landlord.
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Post by londonroader on Sept 8, 2017 6:52:42 GMT
How long will the TV money last, it seems a fragile base to set a clubs future out on.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Sept 8, 2017 7:38:55 GMT
It will last another 5+ years as BT and Sky still feel it's a revenue earner for them. Club wise. Football is such a short term business model, that if the TV money changes and you are organised, you move it on again.
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Post by Marked Ox on Sept 8, 2017 8:05:31 GMT
How long will the TV money last, it seems a fragile base to set a clubs future out on. The next step will be ppv online.
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Post by Marked Ox on Sept 8, 2017 8:05:58 GMT
How long will the TV money last, it seems a fragile base to set a clubs future out on. Ignore double post.
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Post by horseman on Sept 8, 2017 8:18:32 GMT
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so can only guess. What has been noticeable imo is that DE seems to have 'chilled out' and found some new vigour and fire in his belly, maybe, just maybe, Uruguayan businessman Juan Sartori has unfinished business at Grenoble road? Who knows, DE might have done a deal based on the club being in the championship? Might explain DE's more relaxed demeanour. Surely with that scenario we would have seen or heard of attempts to get that elusive proven striker? Do you see us as having an auto promotion squad ?
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Post by mcf86 on Sept 8, 2017 9:15:40 GMT
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so can only guess. What has been noticeable imo is that DE seems to have 'chilled out' and found some new vigour and fire in his belly, maybe, just maybe, Uruguayan businessman Juan Sartori has unfinished business at Grenoble road? Who knows, DE might have done a deal based on the club being in the championship? Might explain DE's more relaxed demeanour. Surely with that scenario we would have seen or heard of attempts to get that elusive proven striker? Do you see us as having an auto promotion squad ? Larger club's in a much higher position than oufc in the EFL and Premiership are also seeking 'that elusive proven striker' - that's why they are elusive!! So either gamble on signing someone who is towards the end of his career and likely to have fitness issues, or, give what are effectively trials to younger fitter players who have the right pma (Positive mental attitude) and ability in the hope they turn out to be prolific, whilst playing for us?! I'm as sure as I can be that the club are for ever searching for better players than they already have, they don't grow on trees though. We have a very interesting mix of players in the current squad, and many need time to settle in the area and with others from European clubs probably makes things more difficult. So hard to predict when or whether they will 'click' and become a team capable of being a top six team, it may help that Pep knows some of them personally, so only time will tell. Two home games in a row coming up, win those and it lifts the confidence for players and supporters alike.
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Post by foley on Sept 8, 2017 9:44:22 GMT
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so can only guess. What has been noticeable imo is that DE seems to have 'chilled out' and found some new vigour and fire in his belly, maybe, just maybe, Uruguayan businessman Juan Sartori has unfinished business at Grenoble road? Who knows, DE might have done a deal based on the club being in the championship? Might explain DE's more relaxed demeanour. Maybe DE is more chilled out due to the monies received from MAPP, Sercombe, Lunny and Johnson?
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Post by Young Money on Sept 8, 2017 10:08:08 GMT
Thoughts ? . Ok we're a lot further from the premier league than Brentford, but not so far that some big lumps of cash could get us there. Making crowds almost irrelevant. Years ago Wenger funded the Emirates by not spending on players, but nowadays the tv money evens out the teams a lot more so crowd sizes don't matter so much between the big clubs. If that's the case why are so many teams - Chelsea, Spurs, West Ham etc all looking to leave classic, old-style grounds where they are actually more likely to win games (see Spurs) for bigger capacities? There has to be a financial decision behind that. Having said that, I do wonder why these teams keep looking to build 'only' 60,000 seater stadiums. Old Trafford holds what 75,000 and I'm sure big teams in London could aggressively sell tickets to day-trippers etc, and would be sold out for the 7-10 'big games' a season as well. If they went for 90,000 thats an extra 30%, which in revenue terms is quite a lot!?
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Post by Mark on Sept 8, 2017 10:49:46 GMT
I think the point with Brentford is that if they can get to the Premiership just once and that will far outweigh the benefits of having the slightly larger ground capacity.
For the established Premier League clubs, the extra revenues all help. Though I wonder how long it will take Chelsea / Spurs etc to pay-off their new grounds?
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 8, 2017 11:02:13 GMT
We are where we have been for many years now thanks to the slum landlord.
We are up a certain creak without a paddle!
Surely a consortium of well off U's fans can come together and purchase the ground and then put it into a trust for OUFC. Then the club pays them back over an agreed period. Yes we are still paying out but we would have full use of all revenue streams relating to the stadium and at least the club are paying for something that will be ours..
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Post by Junior on Sept 8, 2017 12:18:02 GMT
Que Charlie 🙈🙈🙈🙈
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Post by mcf86 on Sept 8, 2017 12:24:33 GMT
We are where we have been for many years now thanks to the slum landlord. We are up a certain creak without a paddle! Surely a consortium of well off U's fans can come together and purchase the ground and then put it into a trust for OUFC. Then the club pays them back over an agreed period. Yes we are still paying out but we would have full use of all revenue streams relating to the stadium and at least the club are paying for something that will be ours.. Not so sure there is such a group of individuals, and even if there were- the present owner of the Grenoble rd ground has got to want to sell, and he's not showing any signs of that, and as long as the 'cash cow' that's oufc keeps filling his insatiable wallet, he won't do. Only time he'll even consider selling is if he got a 'can't refuse' offer, or when the end of the U's lease is nearing its conclusion. We can only hope that, should we reach the dizzy heights of the Championship, the club gets more appealing to wealthy investors who might envisage oufc in the premiership owning their own (Newly built) stadium??
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Post by eugeneox on Sept 8, 2017 15:53:03 GMT
If you are right then I think the club needs to start looking at alternative sites. The only thing certain I that the current situation is not sustainable and unless something is done it jeopardises the whole future of the club. Three years too late. Ironically, back then we were told by some widescreen on here: A) that a new stadium would take 3-5 years, which was 'too long" and B) that Water Eaton was in the green belt and that therefore no planning permission would ever be granted there. The smugness with which these two points were made by people with no knowledge or understanding of the modern OUFC planning environment was shameful. They were wrong then and, again ironically, they're still wrong now. The next mistake is to think that 'buying the kasdam stadium without the full ability to do with it what we wish might be a good idea. It's not. It's just effectively paying Firoz 20-30 years rent upfront without being able to sell it for development if the option of moving becomes available (It will). The only sound strategy is to recognise that a new deal has to make sense from FK's point of view. Not because of some b*llshit notion of his legacy, but in cold hard cash. OUFC has two leverage points: 1) the licence is running down (7 years left) and FK will be in a progressively weaker position as that happens 2) any developments of the overflow car park will be much more valuable if linked to Greater Leys through the land currently occupied by a a county council special needs school. Finally, there is the obvious point that the current site would be twice as valuable as resi development as a football stadium. Work it out from there. Interesting point about there only being seven years left on the lease. Considering the slow progress of anything happening with the ground, I can see these seven years going very quickly with not much happening. Surely we would never sign another lease with Kassam at the end of this one? If so, then his position will get weak as the lease gets into its final years and he may get more urgent to do something. I'm sure he'll still play hardball and be a t*at, though ...
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 8, 2017 15:57:13 GMT
If you are right then I think the club needs to start looking at alternative sites. The only thing certain I that the current situation is not sustainable and unless something is done it jeopardises the whole future of the club. Three years too late. Ironically, back then we were told by some widescreen on here: A) that a new stadium would take 3-5 years, which was 'too long" and B) that Water Eaton was in the green belt and that therefore no planning permission would ever be granted there. The smugness with which these two points were made by people with no knowledge or understanding of the modern OUFC planning environment was shameful. They were wrong then and, again ironically, they're still wrong now. The next mistake is to think that 'buying the kasdam stadium without the full ability to do with it what we wish might be a good idea. It's not. It's just effectively paying Firoz 20-30 years rent upfront without being able to sell it for development if the option of moving becomes available (It will). The only sound strategy is to recognise that a new deal has to make sense from FK's point of view. Not because of some b*llshit notion of his legacy, but in cold hard cash. OUFC has two leverage points: 1) the licence is running down (7 years left) and FK will be in a progressively weaker position as that happens 2) any developments of the overflow car park will be much more valuable if linked to Greater Leys through the land currently occupied by a a county council special needs school. Finally, there is the obvious point that the current site would be twice as valuable as resi development as a football stadium. Work it out from there. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what anyone on here thought. It's not us u had to convince . The fact of the matter is neither the current owner or his predecessor (who you were an advisor to) thought it viable. In fact the former put the latter in charge as the director responsible for finding a stadium solution when he took over, and again he thought staying put was the better option.
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Post by ox18 on Sept 8, 2017 16:37:49 GMT
In my dream world we'd be on the site of the Ice Rink. Relocate the ice rink to where we are currently. As I say - this is purely dreaming. Well I'm not parking my bloody car on the railway lines that's for sure.
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Post by MJB on Sept 8, 2017 17:37:45 GMT
In my dream world we'd be on the site of the Ice Rink. Relocate the ice rink to where we are currently. As I say - this is purely dreaming. Well I'm not parking my bloody car on the railway lines that's for sure. Despite your username, it's got to be build in OX13 as far as I'm concerned. A short walk to the ground would be very handy for me!
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Post by plonker on Sept 8, 2017 18:12:20 GMT
Three years too late. Ironically, back then we were told by some widescreen on here: A) that a new stadium would take 3-5 years, which was 'too long" and B) that Water Eaton was in the green belt and that therefore no planning permission would ever be granted there. The smugness with which these two points were made by people with no knowledge or understanding of the modern OUFC planning environment was shameful. They were wrong then and, again ironically, they're still wrong now. The next mistake is to think that 'buying the kasdam stadium without the full ability to do with it what we wish might be a good idea. It's not. It's just effectively paying Firoz 20-30 years rent upfront without being able to sell it for development if the option of moving becomes available (It will). The only sound strategy is to recognise that a new deal has to make sense from FK's point of view. Not because of some b*llshit notion of his legacy, but in cold hard cash. OUFC has two leverage points: 1) the licence is running down (7 years left) and FK will be in a progressively weaker position as that happens 2) any developments of the overflow car park will be much more valuable if linked to Greater Leys through the land currently occupied by a a county council special needs school. Finally, there is the obvious point that the current site would be twice as valuable as resi development as a football stadium. Work it out from there. Interesting point about there only being seven years left on the lease. Considering the slow progress of anything happening with the ground, I can see these seven years going very quickly with not much happening. Surely we would never sign another lease with Kassam at the end of this one? If so, then his position will get weak as the lease gets into its final years and he may get more urgent to do something. I'm sure he'll still play hardball and be a t*at, though ... Conversely if we leave it late to enter into negotiations, or explore alternatives, Kassam may believe he has leverage. He could take the stance that the club currently has no (immediate) viable alternatives, so the club either pays what he wants, or the team is forced to play God knows where, which could prove to be even more costly. Sickens me to write that. Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the situation or the possible outcomes? Which I kinda hope I am. Regardless, the club absolutely needs to be more forward thinking and explore all options before entering any kind of negotiations. I agree with Charlie re: Kassam caring about his Oxford United legacy. It sounds more like a romantics dream than anything else. Besides, would one action grant him absolution in the eyes of supporters? Doubtful. Certainly not mine anyway. Parasite.
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Post by londonroader on Sept 8, 2017 18:59:44 GMT
Three years too late. Ironically, back then we were told by some widescreen on here: A) that a new stadium would take 3-5 years, which was 'too long" and B) that Water Eaton was in the green belt and that therefore no planning permission would ever be granted there. The smugness with which these two points were made by people with no knowledge or understanding of the modern OUFC planning environment was shameful. They were wrong then and, again ironically, they're still wrong now. The next mistake is to think that 'buying the kasdam stadium without the full ability to do with it what we wish might be a good idea. It's not. It's just effectively paying Firoz 20-30 years rent upfront without being able to sell it for development if the option of moving becomes available (It will). The only sound strategy is to recognise that a new deal has to make sense from FK's point of view. Not because of some b*llshit notion of his legacy, but in cold hard cash. OUFC has two leverage points: 1) the licence is running down (7 years left) and FK will be in a progressively weaker position as that happens 2) any developments of the overflow car park will be much more valuable if linked to Greater Leys through the land currently occupied by a a county council special needs school. Finally, there is the obvious point that the current site would be twice as valuable as resi development as a football stadium. Work it out from there. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what anyone on here thought. It's not us u had to convince . The fact of the matter is neither the Man you were advisor to or his predecessor as owner thought it viable. In fact the latter put the former in charge as the director responsible for finding a stadium solution, and again he thought staying put was the better option. Nail on the head, this is an "obscure internet forum". He couldn't convince the people that mattered but bleats on here how right he thinks the plan is.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 8, 2017 19:02:42 GMT
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what anyone on here thought. It's not us u had to convince . The fact of the matter is neither the Man you were advisor to or his predecessor as owner thought it viable. In fact the latter put the former in charge as the director responsible for finding a stadium solution, and again he thought staying put was the better option. Nail on the head, this is an "obscure internet forum". He couldn't convince the people that mattered but bleats on here how right he thinks the plan is. Had to change that post slightly, got a bit confused using big words like predecessor 🙈😂
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Post by holdsteady on Sept 8, 2017 19:52:49 GMT
Interesting point about there only being seven years left on the lease. Considering the slow progress of anything happening with the ground, I can see these seven years going very quickly with not much happening. Surely we would never sign another lease with Kassam at the end of this one? If so, then his position will get weak as the lease gets into its final years and he may get more urgent to do something. I'm sure he'll still play hardball and be a t*at, though ... Conversely if we leave it late to enter into negotiations, or explore alternatives, Kassam may believe he has leverage. He could take the stance that the club currently has no (immediate) viable alternatives, so the club either pays what he wants, or the team is forced to play God knows where, which could prove to be even more costly. Sickens me to write that. Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding the situation or the possible outcomes? Which I kinda hope I am. Regardless, the club absolutely needs to be more forward thinking and explore all options before entering any kind of negotiations. I agree with Charlie re: Kassam caring about his Oxford United legacy. It sounds more like a romantics dream than anything else. Besides, would one action grant him absolution in the eyes of supporters? Doubtful. Certainly not mine anyway. Parasite. Is their really any situation where uncle Firoz doesn't have the whip hand? The land is worth more as housing/flats to him than as a football ground/conference centre so he is probably quite happy if we see the lease out then can't agree terms to continue there, in the meantime we are paying over the odds for an unfinished and poorly maintained trio of stands around a football pitch. I have a feeling he will put the rent up high enough at the end of the current lease that it either forces the then owners to pay an exorbitant price to get a bad deal to "own" 3 stands and a football pitch or walk away and he gets bulldozers in followed by the developers. On the plus side he could well be dead by then. It's worrying that the club don't appear to be doing much about the stadium situation but then I suppose it's not really Eales problem as he will be gone by then, the ground debate has been put on ice till the current ownership situation has played out, so I suppose there isn't a lot of point us plebs chatting/worrying about it.
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