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Post by backtobasics on Jul 26, 2014 21:06:27 GMT
For me the new regime has not prioritised the urgent need of minimum 2 half decent forwards, and a winger absolute bad mistakes before the start of the season.
Extremely bizarre coach DF is recruited and other backroom staff before the balance of the team particularly the forwards we desperately require to generate goals and effect a positive season.
I believe by investing in a half decent forward line even at this late stage will benefit the club in attracting the gates they need to make progress and generate positive momentum to achieve.
Without forwards recruited PDQ the team will suffer and the gates through the door will reflect poor decision making by the new owners.
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Post by tatabanya on Jul 26, 2014 21:08:17 GMT
For me the new regime has not prioritised the urgent need of minimum 2 half decent forwards, and a winger absolute bad mistakes before the start of the season. Extremely bizarre coach DF is recruited and other backroom staff before the balance of the team particularly the forwards we desperately require to generate goals and effect a positive season. I believe by investing in a half decent forward line even at this late stage will benefit the club in attracting the gates they need to make progress and generate positive momentum to achieve. Without forwards recruited PDQ the team will suffer and the gates through the door will reflect poor decision making by the new owners. How many times do you want Appleton to say that he is working hard to get these players in?
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Post by backtobasics on Jul 26, 2014 21:14:49 GMT
No more talk. Talk is cheap!
Action speaks louder than words...
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jul 26, 2014 21:18:57 GMT
Maybe, just maybe Appleton knew the coaching staff was an easy thing to fix as he could sort it out now. No agents, no other clubs, etc. What's the point in waiting until the players have signed and looking at the coaching staff. I'd argue DF coming in now is the right time for a coach to come in.
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Post by tatabanya on Jul 26, 2014 21:19:13 GMT
No more talk. Talk is cheap! Action speaks louder than words... So judge them once they act, even if that action is inaction. We will sign players, I am sure of that. So let's wait to see who they are before prematurely sticking the knife in.
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Post by backtobasics on Jul 26, 2014 21:29:38 GMT
Unfortunately the coach doesn't double up as a centre forward. Doing something (action) is better than doing nothing.
Hopefully OUFC have learned something with the terrible capitulation end of last season but perhaps the new owners don't realise how last season ended?
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jul 26, 2014 21:33:57 GMT
You assume they are doing nothing rather than knowing they are. None of us know for sure if MAPP is working hard at getting players in or not.
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Post by backtobasics on Jul 26, 2014 21:43:22 GMT
I don't doubt Mapp is probably trying his best, however I do know positive action to recruit forwards is desperately needed and OUFC needs a solution PDQ!
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Post by finlandia on Jul 26, 2014 22:04:20 GMT
With all due respect, why would the new owners be completely open with the supporters group. Gone are the cosy days of the past, with ITK information alluded to on here.
The positive is that the supporters group will now have to act as a proper group.
I wouldn't be surprised if we are targeting four or five new players.
I don't want my independent supporters group in bed with the new owners, I want them to be a proper alternative voice that challenges when appropriate, and continues to try to improve the experience.
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Post by yellowg on Jul 26, 2014 23:05:05 GMT
I dont think getting the likes of DF on board was an easy task or quick fix!!!...
Lets see who comes through the door before Wolves.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 9:10:56 GMT
I think you are being a little OTT Langan. I understand your points, but it comes across as you are looking for something to complain about. I would love to have multiple signings join us on 5th July, but looking at what the club are trying to sign, I can appreciate why we haven't signed players now. Nothing is perfect at the club. I don't think anyone would say it is. Let' hope it's proven that my thoughts are OTT - if that's the case our club will be on a better footing! I'm please you get my points - believe me they're written because I'm concerned. I'm not looking for something to complain about, far from it, I'm looking at a Chief Executive who has spent a pile of cash on luxuries when our squad is tiny AND we're facing RECORD LOSSES in our history. I've no problem with appointing a Number Two (DF). But a second video analyst and a Head of Recruitment. Really? It'a all about priorities and building gradually. The two later hires equal less money to spend on players. In my view a second video guy and a Head of Recruitment will not make such a difference to what happens on the pitch this season and right now I think we need to look a bit more short term. Appleton must have known he was coming in a good few weeks before he joined and he is what three and a half weeks in. He's probably had two months to consider what players he wants. Wouldn't surprise me if we're not at the races on salaries when we talk to agents. I totally get Appleton is looking for players and holding talks. Great. But that does not change the fact the season is two weeks away! The newbies will not have had time to train and get used to their team mates etc. Equally, the pick of the bunch have already found clubs. I think we'll be patching things up now and hoping to strengthen in Jan. We have needed a head of recruitment/ chief scout for years. In fact if we had one maybe we have identified more players and been able to bring them in quicker. It's amazing how many people criticised il for trying to build slow and steady, now we have a decent back room team were moaning that it's going to quick. And as for signing them and df meaning less to spend on players. Complete bollocks . The playing budget has nothing to do with staffing costs
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Post by tatabanya on Jul 27, 2014 9:12:13 GMT
I think you are being way too quick to criticise the people in charge.. the season hasn't started yet so you cant really complain too much about the players (especially when we have 500k more in the player budget than last year), and you are basically criticising them for bringing in very good backroom staff, whereas before you would complain that the backroom staff wasnt good enough. I think after Monday your view will be changed a lot[/quote] Not sure where you've got £500K from. Yes, I am criticising for bringing in a very good backroom staff. It's OTT for a L2 club!! I have no problems with signing DF (even though I wonder about his salary being way above L2 averages). BUT we do not need the additional staff that have been appointed. They are luxuries. If you asked Appleton whether he'd prefer another video analyst or an extra £50K in his budget for players I am pretty sure I know what the answer would be! This is my point - the extra guys in the background means less cash to spend on the playing squad - which is currently very thin. Do you not agree that the decisions that have been made will put the budget and the figures they are working to under enormous strain? I reckon the £1.5M loss is gonna be much bigger than that, which frankly, is totally bonkers for a L2 side. None of this is to say I do not think AP and DF are a good management set up - nor is it saying I do not think we will sign any reasonable players (but you have to wonder why we're struggling to sign top players). [/quote] It's likely that Appleton had an input into the Analyst's recruitment considering they worked together at Pompey. And that Appleton has said in the press that recruitment at oufc has to be improved. Also you keep referring the the luxuries (plural) but it's just one extra man. One man who is the video analyst and head of recruitment. One wage that I can't imagine will be much. And well worth it if the quality of players that we desperately need will improve?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 9:15:24 GMT
I think you are being way too quick to criticise the people in charge.. the season hasn't started yet so you cant really complain too much about the players (especially when we have 500k more in the player budget than last year), and you are basically criticising them for bringing in very good backroom staff, whereas before you would complain that the backroom staff wasnt good enough. I think after Monday your view will be changed a lot[/quote] Not sure where you've got £500K from. Yes, I am criticising for bringing in a very good backroom staff. It's OTT for a L2 club!! I have no problems with signing DF (even though I wonder about his salary being way above L2 averages). BUT we do not need the additional staff that have been appointed. They are luxuries. If you asked Appleton whether he'd prefer another video analyst or an extra £50K in his budget for players I am pretty sure I know what the answer would be! This is my point - the extra guys in the background means less cash to spend on the playing squad - which is currently very thin. Do you not agree that the decisions that have been made will put the budget and the figures they are working to under enormous strain? I reckon the £1.5M loss is gonna be much bigger than that, which frankly, is totally bonkers for a L2 side. None of this is to say I do not think AP and DF are a good management set up - nor is it saying I do not think we will sign any reasonable players (but you have to wonder why we're struggling to sign top players). [/quote] The back room has nothing to do with the playing budget . And no u can't just say if we didn't have them we could use that for more players. There is a wage cap. U can spend 1m on back room if u want u can't decide not to and add it to the playing side. And why do u assume were struggling to sign top players. U don't think it may take time to identify them and then agree deals when clubs higher up will be an easier option for them. You moan that the wage bill will be high and then want them to sign top players. So which is it going to be
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Post by sox on Jul 27, 2014 9:26:01 GMT
But that it more down to the fact they only took over 2 weeks ago. Most teams would have identified players in jan or towards then end when they knew who they were letting go. We were always going to be playing catch up. U can rush and bring in 5-6 players like jim smith did, it don't always work. But we had no scouting in place probably not identified any, or if we had they were not deemed good enough. (McDonald) and like someone else said if we r looking at better players they r probably talking to a lot of different clubs. The fact we now have some well know and respected coaches might be enough to swing the decisions in our favour . I'm getting nervous but still believe. Like d:ream say things can only get better Actually, as a matter of fact, they took over 3 weeks ago, not two, and anyone involved in the bidding process for a club will already have factored in the immediate things that would need to be done before taking over. It would be madness not to do that. I suspect th delay is that Mapp, having not previously worked in League 2, has been slightly surprised that some of his top targets have been a bit more expensive than he might have thought, given the level. This is the conundrum. At this level picking up serviceable full backs, stoppers and defensive midfielders is straightforward and relatively cheap compared to higher leagues. But goals are scarce and cost exponentially more money. So whereas a good full back might be 70 k a year, a reliable 15 goal a season striker is generally going to be more like 120 k a year, and even at that level will be much in demand. Trying to find 3 goalscoring players, swiftly, and on a limited budget, is uber tough. That's not Mapp's fault, at all. But I think it is the most likely explanation. I agree... At least we are addressing the root of the problem now. Chill, these things take time, will be back end of January until we start to see the true direction of travel, the a the time to evaluate. I am much much more positive now than I have been for maybe 3 years. COYY!
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Post by John Lennon on Jul 27, 2014 9:27:58 GMT
I'd much rather a good playing squad, than a Championship standard backroom set up.
It's now less than 2 weeks until the start of the season, and the playing side of things has become a worry.
I appreciate why some fans are giving Ashton and Appleton the benefit of the doubt. Things may come good and everyone will be happy.
But with less than 2 weeks until we play our first league game, with the squad far from being complete, it's now become a worry for more than just a few supporters. It really needs to be 3 or 4 more at least, rather than 1 or 2.
We all want this to work for our new owners and staff, so lets hope it happens.
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Post by ianmoore82 on Jul 27, 2014 9:50:57 GMT
While I'm as paranoid as your average OUFC fan, there is some merit to waiting.
Take, for example, Peterborough. They have 9 players they need to shift before the season starts, otherwise they will still be paying salaries for players who do not figure in their plans.
As the season creeps nearer they are more likely to want to do a good deal to shift them than they do now.
Now, the majority of those 9 are probably out of our league, but you get the drift.
There are many other clubs, probably all of them, who are desperate to shift players. The problem they have is whether those players would rather stay on their current wages or be a first team pick at another club
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 10:11:22 GMT
We have needed a head of recruitment/ chief scout for years. In fact if we had one maybe we have identified more players and been able to bring them in quicker. It's amazing how many people criticised il for trying to build slow and steady, now we have a decent back room team were moaning that it's going to quick. And as for signing them and df meaning less to spend on players. Complete bollocks . The playing budget has nothing to do with staffing costs Sorry but that's complete nonsense. Of course if the club spend more money off the pitch it will have less to spend on it - there's only so much cash to share around!! It's not "complete bollocks" it straight forward economics and budgeting. Furthermore, if what is served up on the pitch is poor we will not hit the 6,000 crowds required just to lose £1.5M! It'll be worse - that' why investing more in the team is vital. I was a supporter of how IL build up the club's infrastructure by the way - especially the youth academy and the sports science. Slow and steady is exactly the right way to do it! But at a time when we have released so many senior players we simply have to invest in the squad as the main priority. And de ma and ma have all said that is what they r going to do. A paying budget has nothing to do with the over all spend . They have said the wage bill will be the same day 1.2m plus maybe 250k extra. What ever they spend on staff, does not affect that budget.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 10:15:18 GMT
I think you are being way too quick to criticise the people in charge.. the season hasn't started yet so you cant really complain too much about the players (especially when we have 500k more in the player budget than last year), and you are basically criticising them for bringing in very good backroom staff, whereas before you would complain that the backroom staff wasnt good enough. I think after Monday your view will be changed a lot Not sure where you've got £500K from. Yes, I am criticising for bringing in a very good backroom staff. It's OTT for a L2 club!! I have no problems with signing DF (even though I wonder about his salary being way above L2 averages). BUT we do not need the additional staff that have been appointed. They are luxuries. If you asked Appleton whether he'd prefer another video analyst or an extra £50K in his budget for players I am pretty sure I know what the answer would be! This is my point - the extra guys in the background means less cash to spend on the playing squad - which is currently very thin. Do you not agree that the decisions that have been made will put the budget and the figures they are working to under enormous strain? I reckon the £1.5M loss is gonna be much bigger than that, which frankly, is totally bonkers for a L2 side. None of this is to say I do not think AP and DF are a good management set up - nor is it saying I do not think we will sign any reasonable players (but you have to wonder why we're struggling to sign top players). The back room has nothing to do with the playing budget . And no u can't just say if we didn't have them we could use that for more players. There is a wage cap. U can spend 1m on back room if u want u can't decide not to and add it to the playing side. And why do u assume were struggling to sign top players. U don't think it may take time to identify them and then agree deals when clubs higher up will be an easier option for them. You moan that the wage bill will be high and then want them to sign top players. So which is it going to be [/quote] I have not moaned the playing wage bill will be too high, far from it - I've pointed out that the wage bill in other areas of the club is too high and therefore it means we will have less to spend on players!! Why do I think we struggling to find top players?? Er, because we haven't signed any. Have long does it take to identify L2 players? There's a fairly tight pool of players plying their trade in the lower reaches of the Football League. Ask any L2 manager to name their wish list and they'll tell you straight away. Which is it going to be? Invest in players - otherwise we're in for a long season. [/quote] Ok u believe that then, we not signing anyone and the budget works how it does in ur own little mind. There is none so blind as those that do not bloody listen.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 10:18:06 GMT
And de ma and ma have all said that is what they r going to do. A paying budget has nothing to do with the over all spend . They have said the wage bill will be the same day 1.2m plus maybe 250k extra. What ever they spend on staff, does not affect that budget. Come on - if they spent less elsewhere Appleton could have been given a bigger playing budget! [/quote] No he f*cking couldn't seriously . Look up the term WAGE CAP on google.
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Post by John Lennon on Jul 27, 2014 10:24:35 GMT
oufcyellows, we already know, due to extra spending, that are losses are expected to go from £1m, to £1.5m. For a league 2 club, that is incredibly scary.
If things don't work out for the new owners, where do you think that leaves our football club?
Langans raises some interesting and valid points, and it's disappointing you choose to ignore what he is saying.
The new people don't have bottomless pockets, and to think the playing budget won't be affected by the extra spend on backroom staff, is in my view, shortsighted.
I am not sure Appleton will be able to achieve anything on the pitch next season with the squad he has, even with a couple more additions. Crowds will remain low, and the losses will only increase further.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 10:26:37 GMT
Come on - if they spent less elsewhere Appleton could have been given a bigger playing budget! No he f*cking couldn't seriously . Look up the term WAGE CAP on google. Where in their interviews have DE or ME said the increase in the playing budget has taken to the club to the wage cap barrier? I'd be surprised if we're at that point. [/quote] Where in their interviews have they said we won't sign these players u keep banging on about.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 10:31:25 GMT
oufcyellows, we already know, due to extra spending, that are losses are expected to go from £1m, to £1.5m. For a league 2 club, that is incredibly scary. If things don't work out for the new owners, where do you think that leaves our football club? Langans raises some interesting and valid points, and it's disappointing you choose to ignore what he is saying. The new people don't have bottomless pockets, and to think the playing budget won't be affected by the extra spend on backroom staff, is in my view, shortsighted. I am not sure Appleton will be able to achieve anything on the pitch next season with the squad he has, even with a couple more additions. Crowds will remain low, and the losses will only increase further. Ur right , they ain't thought it through at all. Panicked as we hadn't got any players and brought in 3 coaches instead to please the fans ,they have no idea what they r doing with the budget and were all doomed - doomed i tell u. Seriously can't win. People have been moaning that If il had invested more in jan we could have gone up. Well that would have taken last seasons loss to about 1.5m as well. Why anyone would want to get involved in oxford is beyond me. They have been open a lot better than pr, had a cracking start to preseason, said that signings r imminent and still the moaning continues. What's the bets they sign these 2-3 decent attackers u r demanding , that u will switch the moaning to how much they have cost us.
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Post by tatabanya on Jul 27, 2014 10:37:38 GMT
oufcyellows, we already know, due to extra spending, that are losses are expected to go from £1m, to £1.5m. For a league 2 club, that is incredibly scary. If things don't work out for the new owners, where do you think that leaves our football club? Langans raises some interesting and valid points, and it's disappointing you choose to ignore what he is saying. The new people don't have bottomless pockets, and to think the playing budget won't be affected by the extra spend on backroom staff, is in my view, shortsighted. I am not sure Appleton will be able to achieve anything on the pitch next season with the squad he has, even with a couple more additions. Crowds will remain low, and the losses will only increase further. I disagree that MApp won't be able to achieve on the pitch with some extra additions Long Hunt Mullins Wright Meades Collins Rose Potter New signing New signing Hylton Should be enough (with the dev squad as back up alongside the likes of Raynes and Newey as back-up) to put us in a good spot until Jan, and that is with only 2 extra additions.
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Post by eighteen93 on Jul 27, 2014 10:42:35 GMT
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Post by John Lennon on Jul 27, 2014 10:43:40 GMT
oufcyellows, we already know, due to extra spending, that are losses are expected to go from £1m, to £1.5m. For a league 2 club, that is incredibly scary. If things don't work out for the new owners, where do you think that leaves our football club? Langans raises some interesting and valid points, and it's disappointing you choose to ignore what he is saying. The new people don't have bottomless pockets, and to think the playing budget won't be affected by the extra spend on backroom staff, is in my view, shortsighted. I am not sure Appleton will be able to achieve anything on the pitch next season with the squad he has, even with a couple more additions. Crowds will remain low, and the losses will only increase further. Ur right , they ain't thought it through at all. Panicked as we hadn't got any players and brought in 3 coaches instead to please the fans ,they have no idea what they r doing with the budget and were all doomed - doomed i tell u. Seriously can't win. People have been moaning that If il had invested more in jan we could have gone up. Well that would have taken last seasons loss to about 1.5m as well. Why anyone would want to get involved in oxford is beyond me. They have been open a lot better than pr, had a cracking start to preseason, said that signings r imminent and still the moaning continues. What's the bets they sign these 2-3 decent attackers u r demanding , that u will switch the moaning to how much they have cost us. Not at all, you are being irrational. If we can get the playing side right, get the fans back through the turnstiles, and bring the community back to Oxford United, then we will all be happy. I want this to work for Eales and Ashton, and I am fully behind them. But as this is the football club I support, I have some questions and concerns. Doesn't mean I'm not behind them. Time will tell what happens, but with less than 2 weeks until the season starts, we are still very short on the playing side. I bet that frustrates Appleton just as much. The most important thing here, is Oxford United football club. We all want a successful football team, which benefits everyone. Some of the concerns are valid, even if you don't share those concerns. Hopefully Ashton can get the deals done this week. I know he will be working hard to do that. But he will know better than anyone, we need those players to put pen to paper, and the sooner the better.
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Post by John Lennon on Jul 27, 2014 10:45:19 GMT
oufcyellows, we already know, due to extra spending, that are losses are expected to go from £1m, to £1.5m. For a league 2 club, that is incredibly scary. If things don't work out for the new owners, where do you think that leaves our football club? Langans raises some interesting and valid points, and it's disappointing you choose to ignore what he is saying. The new people don't have bottomless pockets, and to think the playing budget won't be affected by the extra spend on backroom staff, is in my view, shortsighted. I am not sure Appleton will be able to achieve anything on the pitch next season with the squad he has, even with a couple more additions. Crowds will remain low, and the losses will only increase further. I disagree that MApp won't be able to achieve on the pitch with some extra additions Long Hunt Mullins Wright Meades Collins Rose Potter New signing New signing Hylton Should be enough (with the dev squad as back up alongside the likes of Raynes and Newey as back-up) to put us in a good spot until Jan, and that is with only 2 extra additions. Hopefully mate. But we certainly need to strengthen.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 27, 2014 10:54:02 GMT
Ur right , they ain't thought it through at all. Panicked as we hadn't got any players and brought in 3 coaches instead to please the fans ,they have no idea what they r doing with the budget and were all doomed - doomed i tell u. Seriously can't win. People have been moaning that If il had invested more in jan we could have gone up. Well that would have taken last seasons loss to about 1.5m as well. Why anyone would want to get involved in oxford is beyond me. They have been open a lot better than pr, had a cracking start to preseason, said that signings r imminent and still the moaning continues. What's the bets they sign these 2-3 decent attackers u r demanding , that u will switch the moaning to how much they have cost us. Not at all, you are being irrational. If we can get the playing side right, get the fans back through the turnstiles, and bring the community back to Oxford United, then we will all be happy. I want this to work for Eales and Ashton, and I am fully behind them. But as this is the football club I support, I have some questions and concerns. Doesn't mean I'm not behind them. Time will tell what happens, but with less than 2 weeks until the season starts, we are still very short on the playing side. I bet that frustrates Appleton just as much. The most important thing here, is Oxford United football club. We all want a successful football team, which benefits everyone. Some of the concerns are valid, even if you don't share those concerns. Hopefully Ashton can get the deals done this week. I know he will be working hard to do that. But he will know better than anyone, we need those players to put pen to paper, and the sooner the better. I have the concerns as well , but at the min I'm happy to believe what I being told and new players r imminent . And also if the quality of the staffing additions is anything to go by then we should all be happy. This is the most I've looked forward to the first game of a season in 4 years. The style under wilder has left me doing the unthinkable and actually not bothering to go to games at times. The money side of things is a worry but would still have been if il was still in charge, the football would have been worse with only 1 signing allowed. So for now in excited about signings excited about the youth prospects and am once again going to get behind and support my team. The time may well come we need to start moaning or worse, it's not yet. Come in u yellows
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Post by langansshinpads on Jul 27, 2014 10:55:49 GMT
oufcyellows, we already know, due to extra spending, that are losses are expected to go from £1m, to £1.5m. For a league 2 club, that is incredibly scary. If things don't work out for the new owners, where do you think that leaves our football club? Langans raises some interesting and valid points, and it's disappointing you choose to ignore what he is saying. The new people don't have bottomless pockets, and to think the playing budget won't be affected by the extra spend on backroom staff, is in my view, shortsighted. I am not sure Appleton will be able to achieve anything on the pitch next season with the squad he has, even with a couple more additions. Crowds will remain low, and the losses will only increase further. I disagree that MApp won't be able to achieve on the pitch with some extra additions Long Hunt Mullins Wright Meades Collins Rose Potter New signing New signing Hylton Should be enough (with the dev squad as back up alongside the likes of Raynes and Newey as back-up) to put us in a good spot until Jan, and that is with only 2 extra additions. Let's hope so! All the pace and goals have been taken out of the team from last season. Still think we could do with a couple more than that.
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Post by ianmoore82 on Jul 27, 2014 10:56:30 GMT
The salary cap for L2 clubs is 60% of turnover.
I would imagine that still leaves us a fair bit of leeway with our playing budget if we needed/wanted to up it.
At L2 level you need a good mixture of youth and 2-3 haggard old pros - the latter to protect the young ones from getting bullied and the former to, hopefully, sell on and keep the club afloat.
Just the same as 90% of all other clubs
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Post by jammydodger on Jul 27, 2014 11:01:55 GMT
Any idea on how long Whing is out for? As we need as many senior players as possible at the moment.
2 weeks from the start of the season with only 9 fit senior players is a worry and no one can deny that.
Hopefully they can get some players in this week but that only allows them a week to know the players and their style of play before the season starts.
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