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Post by paulayres on Apr 24, 2011 9:29:44 GMT
Having listened to CW after yesterdays game, he indicated that the fans need to view next season with some realistic aims and not to get too carried away.
This is I believe at odds with IL. Did he not inform the Oxvox committee that he wants promotion to div 1 by the end of next season, followed by promotion to the Championship within 3 years from then.
I have high hopes for next season and a playoff place is in my mind a realistic aim if not even an automatic.
So who is right???
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Post by longliveclarkey on Apr 24, 2011 9:54:20 GMT
What a bizzare post.
So you're saying that a realistic aim is playoffs i.e. potential promotion. Wilder wants us to be realistic about next season, Lenegan wants promotion, and playoffs is a realistic aim. How are they at odds with each other in any way?
Who's right? Both of them. We should be looking at playoffs as a target for next season, with an eye on the automatic spots. Of course it massively depends on how much we improve for next year.
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Post by billy on Apr 24, 2011 10:36:55 GMT
this is complete nonsense. CW wants certain fans to moderate their expectations to avoid tense/hostile atmospheres from some quarters on occasions when things don't go our way. this does not mean that he is not aiming for promotion next season so he is absolutely not at odds with the plans of IL and the board. some people seem bizarrely desperate to conjure up and start rumours conflict within the club wherever they can. bonkers.
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Post by scoob on Apr 24, 2011 11:56:07 GMT
It was clear that Wilder was putting some pressure on IL to provide more cash. He said something along the lines of it is down to the Chairman to provide more resources. That is all. Plain and simple.
Every Manager believe's that more cash is the anwswer. He may be right but plenty of Manager's have proven that they can spend the cash but not get the results.
It does not mean that they are at odds with each other regarding their aims but how they achieve those aims may be at odds.
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Post by rollsy on Apr 24, 2011 12:43:19 GMT
IL has already but £4million into the club tho! And isn't charging any interest on the loan! He's not a multi-millionaire, so how can we expect him to put more money in? we're living within our means, i'd rather that than do a Plymouth
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Post by hablopicasso on Apr 24, 2011 12:49:51 GMT
IL has already but £4million into the club He's not a multi-millionaire He is a multi-millionaire if he's put £4m into the club.
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Post by scoob on Apr 24, 2011 15:20:03 GMT
IL has already but £4million into the club tho! And isn't charging any interest on the loan! He's not a multi-millionaire, so how can we expect him to put more money in? we're living within our means, i'd rather that than do a Plymouth He is a multi millionnaire and, depending upon who you believe, was worth many tens of millions at one point. However, that is no reason to expect him to keep throwing his money away so I agree with you. The club needs to spend within its means and that will make it stronger in the long term.
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Post by basingstokeox on Apr 24, 2011 15:32:13 GMT
CW needs to look at himself as well, how many players did he sign or re signlast season and they arent featuring or can go, Deering, kinni, purks, green,
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Post by billy on Apr 24, 2011 15:54:57 GMT
CW has at no point asked or implied that the owners/board should be coughing up cash that the club doesn't have. nobody is expecting IL to put any more of his own money in either nor did they imply it. the original point made at the start of this thread was nothing about financial backing, it was about CW trying to curb the expectations of one or two of the more unrealistic fans. while we're on the subject though, the vast majority of managers are always looking at ways the club can free up a bit of extra cash they can spend, that's just football.
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Post by yellowg on Apr 24, 2011 16:13:11 GMT
This is Chris Wilder taking the pressure off ahead of next seasons promotion push. Chris Wilder wants to "manage at the highest level". Our squad will improve in pre season and I am sure we will get in the playoffs next season.
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Post by scoob on Apr 24, 2011 19:10:49 GMT
CW has at no point asked or implied that the owners/board should be coughing up cash that the club doesn't have. nobody is expecting IL to put any more of his own money in either nor did they imply it. the original point made at the start of this thread was nothing about financial backing, it was about CW trying to curb the expectations of one or two of the more unrealistic fans. while we're on the subject though, the vast majority of managers are always looking at ways the club can free up a bit of extra cash they can spend, that's just football. There are plenty of people on these boards who want IL to spend more than the club's revenue and have constantly criticised him for not "investing" more cash. CW may not have been suggesting that but he made a pretty obvious statement about needing more money to spend in his RaOx interview yesterday. The statement about curbing of expectations was made in the same interview so they were definitely linked. We have large support and a good budget so it is not unreasonable to have expectation that go with it. Challenging for the play-off should be our minimum expectation but does not mean we should be calling for Wilder's head if we fail.
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Post by billy on Apr 24, 2011 20:00:16 GMT
CW has at no point asked or implied that the owners/board should be coughing up cash that the club doesn't have. nobody is expecting IL to put any more of his own money in either nor did they imply it. the original point made at the start of this thread was nothing about financial backing, it was about CW trying to curb the expectations of one or two of the more unrealistic fans. while we're on the subject though, the vast majority of managers are always looking at ways the club can free up a bit of extra cash they can spend, that's just football. There are plenty of people on these boards who want IL to spend more than the club's revenue and have constantly criticised him for not "investing" more cash. CW may not have been suggesting that but he made a pretty obvious statement about needing more money to spend in his RaOx interview yesterday. The statement about curbing of expectations was made in the same interview so they were definitely linked. We have large support and a good budget so it is not unreasonable to have expectation that go with it. Challenging for the play-off should be our minimum expectation but does not mean we should be calling for Wilder's head if we fail. i'm not really sure what the debate here is about.... there's no conflict between wilder and ian lenegan. they both want and possibly expect the club to be promoted next season. wilder is just hoping the fans aren't unrealistic in the manner in which it might happen. sure, he wants the club to make some extra cash available but find me a manager (other than arsene wenger perhaps) who doesn't. this is such a non-story i can't really believe it's being debated here. and your claim that things being mentioned in the same interview are linked is a bit daft mate. the two issues here, he also mentioned in his interview with jack fm. they are clearly separate issues that he had pre-prepared. the two points are unrelated. in the same interview with jack, he mentioned how bad he felt for jimmy sangare getting injured and how well ryan clarke has done for the club... they were in the same interview and yet completely unlinked!
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Post by billy on Apr 24, 2011 20:02:43 GMT
This is Chris Wilder taking the pressure off ahead of next seasons promotion push. ^ this
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Post by Lone Gunman on Apr 24, 2011 20:04:55 GMT
It seems to me that people are always out to see conflict where none exists and will read whatever they want into interviews/articles to support such claims. For me its logical for wilder to warn against undue expectation. It was bad enough this term when we had a sniff of the playoffs and whenever we failed to win wilder was a clown and the players useless. As for the money aspect, what manager is there out there that wouldn't like to have more money available? In an ideal world managers would have as much cash as they want for transfers but that obviously isn't possible at OUFC and Wilder has accepted this. Talk of a feud between manager and owner is a complete chimera imo.
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Post by scoob on Apr 24, 2011 23:06:31 GMT
There are plenty of people on these boards who want IL to spend more than the club's revenue and have constantly criticised him for not "investing" more cash. CW may not have been suggesting that but he made a pretty obvious statement about needing more money to spend in his RaOx interview yesterday. The statement about curbing of expectations was made in the same interview so they were definitely linked. We have large support and a good budget so it is not unreasonable to have expectation that go with it. Challenging for the play-off should be our minimum expectation but does not mean we should be calling for Wilder's head if we fail. i'm not really sure what the debate here is about.... there's no conflict between wilder and ian lenegan. they both want and possibly expect the club to be promoted next season. wilder is just hoping the fans aren't unrealistic in the manner in which it might happen. sure, he wants the club to make some extra cash available but find me a manager (other than arsene wenger perhaps) who doesn't. this is such a non-story i can't really believe it's being debated here. and your claim that things being mentioned in the same interview are linked is a bit daft mate. the two issues here, he also mentioned in his interview with jack fm. they are clearly separate issues that he had pre-prepared. the two points are unrelated. in the same interview with jack, he mentioned how bad he felt for jimmy sangare getting injured and how well ryan clarke has done for the club... they were in the same interview and yet completely unlinked! Sorry but who is being daft here? The examples you give are totally unrelated and can never be related. The comments regarding finances and expectation are absolutely linked together and no coincidence that they came up in the same interview. I have not suggested that there is any sort of rift but simply that Wilder was trying to put a little pressure on the Chairman/Owner which is fine. To suggest the comments were unrelated is somewhat naive but if you wish to believe that then that is your perogative. There is nothing unrealistic about our fans expecting a play-off place next season. The club has the resources available for that to be the expectation. What he was suggesting was that without the resources of a top team then then we can not have top of the table expectations. What is wrong with a little healthy debate on a debating forum? I don't agree with the suggestion that there is a rift and have said that but if people can not express their views then the whole forum may as well shut down.
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Post by hht on Apr 25, 2011 9:32:40 GMT
Essentially all it means is Wilder is looking for playoffs/promotion but does not want people to go mental if were 12th in October or something. He is right, many fans are not the brightest and forget to look at points to play for etc and just knee jerk things like "mid table after 30 games, were not getting promotion, sack him!!!".
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Post by londonroader on Apr 25, 2011 10:32:55 GMT
Essentially all it means is Wilder is looking for playoffs/promotion but does not want people to go mental if were 12th in October or something. He is right, many fans are not the brightest and forget to look at points to play for etc and just knee jerk things like "mid table after 30 games, were not getting promotion, sack him!!!". If all that's right, maybe that was a shot at the owner, IL can't afford for attendances to fall.
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Post by Millman on Apr 25, 2011 10:47:17 GMT
What are our expectations for next season? Mine are a decent promotion push, consistency, and tactical flexibility. I have to say we have fallen short of my expectations for this season. I expect a big improvement next.
Resources are a non issue we have more than enough to do much better than we have. Stevenage and Accrington both have less than us and both are where I thought we should be this year.
Wilder can say what he likes but this season has been a disappointment and he has to be partially responsible. A club like ours is set up to do much better so I think fans have every right to expect more.
I think next season we will learn much more about just how good Wilder is, or is not.
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Post by scoob on Apr 25, 2011 11:22:47 GMT
Millman I agree with that. I do not expect auto-promotion but I believe that, with our resources, we should be aiming for that. I expect us to be challenging for the play-offs at worst.
We have had reasonable results in the last three games but have picked up only 12 points in the last 10 games and that is very disappointing and reflects our season overall.
We need to pick up our game next season and the play-offs should be our realistic aim. If we fall short of that then I can see our crowds falling off and creating a financial problem again.
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Post by pottersrightboot on Apr 25, 2011 11:25:54 GMT
What are our expectations for next season? Mine are a decent promotion push, consistency, and tactical flexibility. I have to say we have fallen short of my expectations for this season. I expect a big improvement next. Resources are a non issue we have more than enough to do much better than we have. Stevenage and Accrington both have less than us and both are where I thought we should be this year. Wilder can say what he likes but this season has been a disappointment and he has to be partially responsible. A club like ours is set up to do much better so I think fans have every right to expect more. I think next season we will learn much more about just how good Wilder is, or is not. I think you should chill out a little. Disagree strongly. Too many supporters want instant gratification. The season has not been a disappointment to me. Some good football has been played and the squad as a whole is far stronger now than May 2010. We are on the right lines. Wilder is already in the top three OUFC managers ever. Only Turner and J Smith out-rank him in my book. And why's that? Let me give you a date : December 2008. Star midfielder - Phil the Power Trainer Plus the little matter of impending financial meltdown. The club continues to develop on and off the pitch. League 2 is a tough league ; sure there are no outstanding sides but nearly every game has been a battle. One thing one poster said was right; Lenagan won't want the crowds to drop! So we must have more progress - to me that represents a top 7 finish next year.
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Post by Millman on Apr 25, 2011 14:11:29 GMT
Don't get me wrong pottersrightboot i'm not angry just I feel we have fell well short of our potential this season. I agree with you that we have made progress from the dark days of 2008, and financially we are much better. However a club with our resources could be doing a lot better. We can't afford to rest on our laurels. Scoob is spot on we simply have to maintain our upward push until financially we are sorted. We mustn't kid our selves we are not out of the woods yet.
I go back to my point about Stevenage they came up when we did (via a route that actually gave them less resources). They at very best have the same resources as us probably a lot worse yet they are in the plays offs and we are mid table (I know its only a few points but they have again been better than us). This to me is disappointing.
We ma be better than when we started the season yet still we are very inconsistent. We need to be much better next year and there is no reason we shouldn't be. If our manager is as good as many think we will see next season. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he is a bad manager but for me the jury is still out that he is the right man to take us forward at the pace we require.
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Post by yellowg on Apr 25, 2011 17:59:49 GMT
Don't get me wrong pottersrightboot i'm not angry just I feel we have fell well short of our potential this season. I agree with you that we have made progress from the dark days of 2008, and financially we are much better. However a club with our resources could be doing a lot better. We can't afford to rest on our laurels. Scoob is spot on we simply have to maintain our upward push until financially we are sorted. We mustn't kid our selves we are not out of the woods yet. I go back to my point about Stevenage they came up when we did (via a route that actually gave them less resources). They at very best have the same resources as us probably a lot worse yet they are in the plays offs and we are mid table (I know its only a few points but they have again been better than us). This to me is disappointing. We ma be better than when we started the season yet still we are very inconsistent. We need to be much better next year and there is no reason we shouldn't be. If our manager is as good as many think we will see next season. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he is a bad manager but for me the jury is still out that he is the right man to take us forward at the pace we require. Wilder is moving things along nicely in line with the plan that has been set by the board and KT. It took Kassam the best part of 15 years to almost kill the club....lets not expect to be back in the Championship over night!!!...there is alot of work to do. People in football and players from other clubs are becoming very aware of how we do things. We are become very respected - it would be such a shame if we reverted back to that annoying and self defeating attitude of "do or die" that we had for years in the BSP. If you asked me, I would set our sights on the playoffs next season and go from there.
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Post by basingstokeox on Apr 25, 2011 19:11:11 GMT
It is simple CW is very intelligent and is trying to obtain the largest budget possibly, but inferring things about the chairman or club it puts pressure on the club at a time of ST sales.
The Min we should be going for is playoffs next season.
CW wants to manage higher and is loyal (look at halifax) thus he wants to do it with us, but wants a big budget to give him options.
I dont think their is an friction between CW and IL as KT is the buffer between the two and KT is one smart cookie.
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Post by paulayres on Apr 25, 2011 19:30:26 GMT
Well well it would appear that some supporters fail to listen to what is going on at the club. The owner has clearly stated that he expects division 1 football by the start of the 2012-13 season with Championship football within 3 years of that. Wilder clearly stated on RO that fans need to have realistic aims for next season and that he would be talking to the Chairman (an employee of the owner) for an increased budget for next season.
The size of the budget should not dictate the position you finish in the league. Bury have just secured automatic promotion on a far smaller budget than Wilder has to work with.
I did not say that there was a rift between IL & CW, but that they appear to be at odds as to expectations for next season. With the attendance levels the best bar one in division 2, I would expect at least playoffs next season and be disappointed if we did not make automatic.
Since Jake Wright suggested that we were good enough to win the final 6 games we have in fact played 4 and not won one of them. The inconsistency has to change next season and CW needs to understand why we are so inconsistent and put it right.
Failure to do so will see more of the same.
Its no good crowing about how we took 4 points from the Champions elect, when we had 6 points taken of us by a team certain to be relegated, inconsistency at its best.
Next season is not all about 2 certain games, its about where you finish at the at the final whistle.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Apr 25, 2011 19:41:53 GMT
Yes paul, we know IL wants promotion next season. We also know Wilder wants to be realistic in his aims. You think promotion (at least via playoffs) is realistic. Where is the issue?
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Post by yelloexile on Apr 25, 2011 22:53:53 GMT
The title of this topic is amazing.
Next there will be some talk of 'Wilder losing the dressing room' or some other inferred crap.
I've enjoyed some of our football this season. With the rub of the (Matt) Green, and a few of those shots hitting the net rather than the bar next year we'll be fighting.
The key is building once more, and signing Beano up for three years is a great start.
Bring on next year and the Scum.
What's the point of trying to find problems before next season has started? I'm sure we can judge what level of backing there is after this summer's transfer activity in terms of wages and/or fees?
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Post by londonroader on Apr 26, 2011 7:19:40 GMT
Don't get me wrong pottersrightboot i'm not angry just I feel we have fell well short of our potential this season. I agree with you that we have made progress from the dark days of 2008, and financially we are much better. However a club with our resources could be doing a lot better. We can't afford to rest on our laurels. Scoob is spot on we simply have to maintain our upward push until financially we are sorted. We mustn't kid our selves we are not out of the woods yet. I go back to my point about Stevenage they came up when we did (via a route that actually gave them less resources). They at very best have the same resources as us probably a lot worse yet they are in the plays offs and we are mid table (I know its only a few points but they have again been better than us). This to me is disappointing. We ma be better than when we started the season yet still we are very inconsistent. We need to be much better next year and there is no reason we shouldn't be. If our manager is as good as many think we will see next season. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he is a bad manager but for me the jury is still out that he is the right man to take us forward at the pace we require. Just a point about stevenage, not the best example to give if the rumours about envelopes are to be believed.
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Post by londonroader on Apr 26, 2011 7:31:26 GMT
Budgets do not always dictate your end league position, clubs like Bury etc who it would seem are on smaller budgets that ours have had time to build, and they tweak their squads each year.
We on the other hand need the crowds to come through the gates to try and keep the books balanced, and CW has carried out major surgery to the squad each season, even changing the players around mid season, CW would always want a bigger budget as he is on a short term mission to keep the fans interested, progress is the buzz word everyone seems to be using and the club will only keep moving forward with CW short term remit if they chuck money at him, he has not got the luxury of time on his side to build a decent squad, a catch 22 situation really.
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Post by Millman on Apr 26, 2011 7:45:59 GMT
Actually Londonroader I disagree, I believe with our budget it is quite possible to be aiming for promotion if the budget is spent wisely and if the manager is really good. I have no proof yet I will be surprised if our budget is not in the top ten within the league. Now if we get mired down into mid table mediocrity for a number of seasons will our crowds hold up? As Scoob mentioned we are already spending nearly everything we are taking in so a fall in crowds is potentially very bad in terms of our playing budget or finances.
The rebuilding point is very valid and something which has haunted Wilder since he joined. Season to season we do indeed make a number of changes are all of them required possibly not. Do all of them make a huge difference no not really. We started the season with a team that initially was ok but then struggled. We ended one that has mid table running all the way through it. An improvement sure but not one that turned us into a team that stood any chance of challenging for promotion. Look at the last two games for proof. A draw against the league leaders and a very good performance, then a draw against the second from bottom team and a poor performance. This is not the form of a promotion challenging team.
Ok so I can forgive Wilder's inexperience for getting it so wrong at the start of the season, but yet I am still disappointed by the amount of improvement. Hand on hearts people, can any of you truly say we have ever looked like a team that would get promoted this season?
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Post by paulayres on Apr 26, 2011 7:51:11 GMT
Building a decent squad or rather a squad of players who have the ability to match or better different styles of play. We have to be able to adapt depending on the style of play we are facing. We can perform against footballing sides but seem to struggle against teams that can mix it.
It will be very interesting to see what and how many players both come in and are released or sold before the start of the next season. Those who spoke with Kas Stad Kate on Sat inferred they would rather see the current squad kept with a little tweeking, others want to see 5 or 6 new players. It will certainly be an interesting closed season for the fans.
As for the title of this thread, it got people reading it and making comments, so job done.
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