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Post by Si Bradbury on Sept 19, 2013 11:04:30 GMT
Worth a thread of its own (and I will try and find other information throughout this forum/threads) but following on from a number of Oxford United fans being refused entry last weekend and having their tickets ripped up in front of them we would like to invite comments and individual stories/complaints so that we can collate this and present it to the FSF, Oxford United and Cheltenham Town.
OxVox have represented our fans before, notably the 'annual' Northampton ejection policy and the situation fans were caught up in on the way to Kidderminster on the trains a few years back.
For any member or non-member who would like us to represent you and take it forward on your behalf, then please email corporate@oxvox.org.uk or PM me here. In addition, add your comments below.
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Post by sarge on Sept 19, 2013 11:31:26 GMT
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Post by ssu1965 on Sept 19, 2013 12:02:29 GMT
Went to our seats...somebody else in them because when they went to their seats somebody in them and stewards said sit where you can....whats the point of seat numbers and stewards? . i needed seats together as i took my young son and his mate...ended up right at the front row where luckily we could sit all the boys together. stewards were no help or bothered to assist at all.
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Post by Common Villager on Sept 19, 2013 12:37:01 GMT
Went to our seats...somebody else in them because when they went to their seats somebody in them and stewards said sit where you can....whats the point of seat numbers and stewards? . i needed seats together as i took my young son and his mate...ended up right at the front row where luckily we could sit all the boys together. stewards were no help or bothered to assist at all. If you're that desperate for seats you should probably just go down the side rather than behind the goal.
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Post by Colin B on Sept 19, 2013 13:15:29 GMT
Copied from the other thread. Happened to a mate of mine two seasons ago. The stewards said show us your ticket, and when he did, they ripped it from his hands and said your not coming in. Gripped him up and took him to the police. When I went to see what was going on, two of them crept up behind me and grabbed me. Now, I admit that I rared up considerably at this, but the upshot was that we were both forced by the police to leave the county of Gloucestershire within an hour and not return for 24 hours. When I asked the police to intervene, as the stewards had been unreasonable (we had tickets, were not drunk, and had complied with their request) the reply was that it was private property and the stewards could do what they like. In what other walk of life are customers treated like this? See also the Bristol Rovers thread for examples of mis-treatment of football fans....... Read more: yellowsforum.co.uk/thread/15242/cheltenham-stewards#ixzz2fLOW1nYk
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Post by Mark Sennett on Sept 19, 2013 15:48:52 GMT
We've spoken to Mick Brown over this issue after one fan compalined to us. The initial advice is to wrtie asking for a refund and an explanation from Cheltenham Town. If this is not forthcoming you should contact the football league and also the football ombudsman. We will happily write a complaint letter ourselves to support the overall case to Cheltenham.
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Post by iambungle on Sept 19, 2013 16:32:27 GMT
I posted on the other thread....
If people get no joy from CTFC direct and want to take it to the FL etc, then imo, it would be helpful if they could show that this has happened to fans from other clubs.
Could OxVox contact say the Pompey Supporters Trust (or Plymouth) to see if their fans suffered the same when they went there this season (they would have taken a few).
Just a thought.
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Post by Si Bradbury on Sept 19, 2013 16:43:37 GMT
Ian
We spoke about this last night, a member of the committee today was due to contact Portsmouth (we have a contact there) to identify if they were subjected to the same issues. We will then decide if we can work as two Supporter Trusts to make stronger representation.
Will let you know the outcome on this thread.
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Post by matt3009 on Sept 19, 2013 16:55:37 GMT
Whilst my son was one of those moved on from behind the goal which is fair enough, I found it was more the underhand way they were picking on individual s asking for a 'Quick word' then said person not to be seen again. From my view it looked like they had an agenda and it was quite organised between a group of 4/5 of them to do this which I found quite disturbing at a league 2 football match!! To note, it was my turn to drive so I hadn't had a drink either mores the pity though I found the frustratingly enjoyable
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Post by ssu1965 on Sept 19, 2013 20:11:16 GMT
Went to our seats...somebody else in them because when they went to their seats somebody in them and stewards said sit where you can....whats the point of seat numbers and stewards? . i needed seats together as i took my young son and his mate...ended up right at the front row where luckily we could sit all the boys together. stewards were no help or bothered to assist at all. If you're that desperate for seats you should probably just go down the side rather than behind the goal.
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Post by ssu1965 on Sept 19, 2013 20:13:22 GMT
We were down the side....not behind the goal.....had some kids with me hence why it would have been nice to actually have our alllocated seats. If no kids no problem i wouldn't care where i sat. Hope you can see my point?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2013 12:09:35 GMT
If you want to get the seats you want get in the ground nice and early. Oxford fans always stand where we want, it allows the singers to congregate together and create a better atmosphere. If we've turned up late at a game I've found it stressful finding a place to sit/stand. Even worse when there's a fair few of you. Get in there an hour before kick off and you have time to find your seats.
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 20, 2013 12:11:29 GMT
If you want to get the seats you want get in the ground nice and early. Oxford fans always stand where we want, it allows the singers to congregate together and create a better atmosphere. If we've turned up late at a game I've found it stressful finding a place to sit/stand. Even worse when there's a fair few of you. Get in there an hour before kick off and you have time to find your seats. Or you just sit in the seats you're entitled to sit in
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Post by bazzer9461 on Sept 20, 2013 15:14:55 GMT
but when on big away games has it been seats your entitled to I would like to sit near the back just to the right of the goa and as with pompey Cheltenham scum it was a case of grab the seat you want and as most others have done it not much hassle if the people who have the tickets for the seat we are sat in although if I have a ticket with my mmtes and we want the seat we have allocated we will have them
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Post by nick68 on Sept 20, 2013 18:11:45 GMT
The 'you're in my seat' issue is a tricky one. In all other forms of entertainment the customer is given a choice of where they would like to sit, with away tickets you pay your money and get given what you're given! This obviously causes issues when people who don't book their tickets together want to sit together, which is perfectly understandable as it's not always practical to be that organised. On the flip side if you do book your tickets together then surely you should expect to sit together and not find someone else in your seat. At the theatre etc you would get an employee to assist you and resolve the issue as why should you be put in a position whereby you are confronting someone? At football that employee would be a steward and you would effectively be left to sort it out yourself which is unacceptable!
Back on track my son (age 13) was body searched on entering the ground which was the first time this has ever happened to him, bearing in mind he has travelled home and away with me for the past 4 seasons I found that appalling.
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Post by ssu1965 on Sept 20, 2013 18:56:16 GMT
i accepted that the people in our seat were there because they 'sat' where they could due to their own seats being taken it would have been nice of the stewards to show some assistance in locating four seats together for me and the kids but all we got was a shrug and a 'look over their mate or go behind the goal' it was just fortunante that the front row was free. No doubt had we had to stand, we'd have been chucked out by the stewards. also puzzled why the kids had to finish their drinks before entering the ground.....they were selling bottles of pop inside so couldn't be to stop our nine year old hoolies 'bottling' some chelts winger! there has to be a case for safe standing in areas so fans who wanted too, could cluster. Why is it safe to stand at Borussia Dortmund with 20k supporters on one terrace and not at a L2 match?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 9:48:22 GMT
If you want to get the seats you want get in the ground nice and early. Oxford fans always stand where we want, it allows the singers to congregate together and create a better atmosphere. If we've turned up late at a game I've found it stressful finding a place to sit/stand. Even worse when there's a fair few of you. Get in there an hour before kick off and you have time to find your seats. Or you just sit in the seats you're entitled to sit in Or you could just get there in good time and find your seat.
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Post by Si Bradbury on Sept 24, 2013 10:22:50 GMT
Most clubs stewards are sensible and lenient, they allow fans to sit where they want. However, it isn't the case that Oxford fans always sit where they want.
Portsmouth this season saw their stewards trying to implement people sitting in their allocated seats. Northampton a few seasons ago where over-zealous stewarding saw Oxford fans get ejected was as a direct result of people not able to find seats (the allocated ones even) and as a result stood in gangways - which then allowed them an excuse to eject people.
I like to try and sit where I want but at Cheltenhan I wasn't able to sit with my mate and his son and had to sit in the allocated seats on the ticket.
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 24, 2013 21:52:44 GMT
Or you just sit in the seats you're entitled to sit in Or you could just get there in good time and find your seat. Why should I have to turn up earlier to sit in the seat that I am entitled to sit in? If it's my seat on the ticket I'll sit there...
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Post by oufcgav on Sept 25, 2013 6:43:07 GMT
The thing is that clubs (especially at this level) don't want to have to deal with stewarding people to their allocated seats (the "cheap" seats anyway). But, licensing regulations mean that if they sell seats as unreserved, they are not allowed to sell every seat (the penalty is removing 5-10% of capacity from memory). So, what we have is this hybrid (allocated seats but non enforcement) situation, which when combined with poor stewarding leads to situations like Northampton & Cheltenham.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 9:37:30 GMT
Or you could just get there in good time and find your seat. Why should I have to turn up earlier to sit in the seat that I am entitled to sit in? If it's my seat on the ticket I'll sit there... Because we have a core group of singers that like to stand together. When everyone sits in their listed seat the atmosphere is terrible, because no songs get started. This is why the singers will always stand together. And we have about 50+ that all know each other and like to stand together at games. This has been happening ever since I started going to away games when I was little, so it's not going to change now. And quite frankly I hope it doesn't change, because standing with people you get on with who are all up for improving the atmosphere makes the game far more enjoyable for everyone. So like I said, my advice to you and everyone else is get into the ground about half an hour before kick-off to ensure you sit in the seat you want.
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Post by ox1yellow on Sept 25, 2013 12:46:23 GMT
I've been an away fan with Chelsea on many occasions and have ALWAYS sat in the seat I have been allocated without issue. I have NEVER seen anything like the clusterf**k that you get in the away end at many L2 grounds.
I understand that fans will always prefer to move around and sit with mates etc. so it solely relies on strong leadership from the stewards. If they can't be arsed to do their job properly and maintain a degree of order then you are always going to end up with problems. The knock on effects of a 'free seating' (or 'can't be arsed') approach are the need to clear aisles (often with police support) and overcrowding in some areas.
If away fans in the premier league can be controlled without fuss, surely stewards in L2 can manage to do it effectively with smaller groups of fans. I would argue that they do not have many more stewards 'stewarding' per 100 heads say in the premier league than we do in L2, they may even be a quote set out by the football league, it's just that they just have a more organised approach.
Now saying all that, I like to sit where I want when I go away so I am not arguing against free seating, simply that the blame lies with weak-arsed stewarding.
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Post by Lone Gunman on Sept 25, 2013 18:39:14 GMT
Why should I have to turn up earlier to sit in the seat that I am entitled to sit in? If it's my seat on the ticket I'll sit there... Because we have a core group of singers that like to stand together. When everyone sits in their listed seat the atmosphere is terrible, because no songs get started. This is why the singers will always stand together. And we have about 50+ that all know each other and like to stand together at games. This has been happening ever since I started going to away games when I was little, so it's not going to change now. And quite frankly I hope it doesn't change, because standing with people you get on with who are all up for improving the atmosphere makes the game far more enjoyable for everyone. So like I said, my advice to you and everyone else is get into the ground about half an hour before kick-off to ensure you sit in the seat you want. What happens if you arrive early, sit in your allocated seat, and then get told five minutes before kick off by one of this 'chosen 50+' that you have to move because 'we like to stand together and the atmosphere will be sh#t otherwise?' You have to appreciate the selfishness of your view (even if it is an understandable one) and the fact that the actions of your minority (which your '50+' will pretty much always be) are going to have a knock-on effect on a far greater number of fans. The answer is of course unallocated seating or, even better, terracing, but in the absence of that there surely has to be a bit of give and take rather than the attitude that 'we're the singers, we do what we want.'
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Post by Mark on Sept 25, 2013 18:48:19 GMT
To the Chelsea fan. Of course it's easy for away stewards to enforce seating when the home crowds are 60k and the away fans sell out their 3k and they are used to having every away seat sold.
What's harder at little clubs like Cheltenham is that they only get occasional good away crowds, so go for rent-a-mob stewards / bouncers. Who would rather not let people in than enforce ticketed seats. And when there are hundreds of spare seats it's first come first served. Families and kids and oldies who sit behind the goal in their allocated seats should have picked somewhere more suitable.
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Post by londonroader on Sept 25, 2013 20:07:08 GMT
I've been an away fan with Chelsea on many occasions and have ALWAYS sat in the seat I have been allocated without issue. I have NEVER seen anything like the clusterf**k that you get in the away end at many L2 grounds. I understand that fans will always prefer to move around and sit with mates etc. so it solely relies on strong leadership from the stewards. If they can't be arsed to do their job properly and maintain a degree of order then you are always going to end up with problems. The knock on effects of a 'free seating' (or 'can't be arsed') approach are the need to clear aisles (often with police support) and overcrowding in some areas. If away fans in the premier league can be controlled without fuss, surely stewards in L2 can manage to do it effectively with smaller groups of fans. I would argue that they do not have many more stewards 'stewarding' per 100 heads say in the premier league than we do in L2, they may even be a quote set out by the football league, it's just that they just have a more organised approach. Now saying all that, I like to sit where I want when I go away so I am not arguing against free seating, simply that the blame lies with weak-arsed stewarding. Because prem fans are prawn sandwich munching plastics, we are real fans in div 4.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Sept 25, 2013 20:50:06 GMT
I've been an away fan with Chelsea on many occasions and have ALWAYS sat in the seat I have been allocated without issue. I have NEVER seen anything like the clusterf**k that you get in the away end at many L2 grounds. I understand that fans will always prefer to move around and sit with mates etc. so it solely relies on strong leadership from the stewards. If they can't be arsed to do their job properly and maintain a degree of order then you are always going to end up with problems. The knock on effects of a 'free seating' (or 'can't be arsed') approach are the need to clear aisles (often with police support) and overcrowding in some areas. If away fans in the premier league can be controlled without fuss, surely stewards in L2 can manage to do it effectively with smaller groups of fans. I would argue that they do not have many more stewards 'stewarding' per 100 heads say in the premier league than we do in L2, they may even be a quote set out by the football league, it's just that they just have a more organised approach. Now saying all that, I like to sit where I want when I go away so I am not arguing against free seating, simply that the blame lies with weak-arsed stewarding. Never heard that before "away fan"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2013 11:41:26 GMT
Because we have a core group of singers that like to stand together. When everyone sits in their listed seat the atmosphere is terrible, because no songs get started. This is why the singers will always stand together. And we have about 50+ that all know each other and like to stand together at games. This has been happening ever since I started going to away games when I was little, so it's not going to change now. And quite frankly I hope it doesn't change, because standing with people you get on with who are all up for improving the atmosphere makes the game far more enjoyable for everyone. So like I said, my advice to you and everyone else is get into the ground about half an hour before kick-off to ensure you sit in the seat you want. What happens if you arrive early, sit in your allocated seat, and then get told five minutes before kick off by one of this 'chosen 50+' that you have to move because 'we like to stand together and the atmosphere will be sh#t otherwise?' You have to appreciate the selfishness of your view (even if it is an understandable one) and the fact that the actions of your minority (which your '50+' will pretty much always be) are going to have a knock-on effect on a far greater number of fans. The answer is of course unallocated seating or, even better, terracing, but in the absence of that there surely has to be a bit of give and take rather than the attitude that 'we're the singers, we do what we want.' Silly idea. That has never ever happened since I started going to away games when I was little. I've only missed a handful of away games in the last 4 years and nobody has told someone to move out of their correct seat. And to be quite honest, I'd say the minority are the people who sit in their correct seats nowadays. Or it's atleast a 50/50 split now.
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Post by Lone Gunman on Sept 26, 2013 12:35:38 GMT
What happens if you arrive early, sit in your allocated seat, and then get told five minutes before kick off by one of this 'chosen 50+' that you have to move because 'we like to stand together and the atmosphere will be sh#t otherwise?' You have to appreciate the selfishness of your view (even if it is an understandable one) and the fact that the actions of your minority (which your '50+' will pretty much always be) are going to have a knock-on effect on a far greater number of fans. The answer is of course unallocated seating or, even better, terracing, but in the absence of that there surely has to be a bit of give and take rather than the attitude that 'we're the singers, we do what we want.' Silly idea. That has never ever happened since I started going to away games when I was little. I've only missed a handful of away games in the last 4 years and nobody has told someone to move out of their correct seat. And to be quite honest, I'd say the minority are the people who sit in their correct seats nowadays. Or it's atleast a 50/50 split now. Surely its an equally silly idea that just because it hasn't happened to you its never happened? I'd agree that a lot of fans now don't sit in their allocated seat but its at least in part the knock on effect of your '50+' consistently not using that seat. Ultimately i'm not trying to be some officious, 'sit in your seat or else' type. All I'm saying is that, while its fair to say that allocated seating is stupid, the argument that fans who want to sit in their set seat should subject themselves to the will of an elite of '50+ singers' is a bit selfish.
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Post by ox44xp on Sept 26, 2013 14:19:06 GMT
Whilest I have witnessed the displacement of "unauthorised" seat-sitters by the person who is entitled to the seat, I have yet to see a legitimate seat occupier being removed so that someone can be in a gang with his mates.
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Post by saddletramp on Sept 26, 2013 17:25:34 GMT
To the Chelsea fan. Of course it's easy for away stewards to enforce seating when the home crowds are 60k and the away fans sell out their 3k and they are used to having every away seat sold. What's harder at little clubs like Cheltenham is that they only get occasional good away crowds, so go for rent-a-mob stewards / bouncers. Who would rather not let people in than enforce ticketed seats. And when there are hundreds of spare seats it's first come first served. Families and kids and oldies who sit behind the goal in their allocated seats should have picked somewhere more suitable. Have you ever been to an away game ? "Families and kids and oldies who sit behind the goal in their allocated seats should have picked somewhere more suitable to sit" Since when do you EVER get to pick your seat for an away game ? "hello is that Oxford United,id like a ticket for the away game at Cheltenham,im not really much of a singer,so could you tell me what seats are behind the goal where the happy clappers will be sitting,id like 2 tickets about,say,100 seats to the left or to the right of the goal" Yeh right.
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