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Post by baldy on Apr 22, 2012 8:22:29 GMT
Just heard on MUTV that Giggs has won just 5 penalties for Man U in 20 years. Are you telling me that a player of his ability and trickery has only been fouled 5 times in the penalty area in the last 20 years !
And referees are biased towards Man U !!!!
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Post by Guest on Apr 22, 2012 8:33:25 GMT
Maybe because he stays on his feet and is one of their more honest players? (on the pitch obviously)
Referees are biased towards Man Utd, many examples this season.
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 22, 2012 11:06:08 GMT
I hate the phrase 'won a penalty'. You only 'win' penalties if you are diving and conning the ref, otherwise it is always the defender conceding a penalty.
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Post by sihath on Apr 22, 2012 11:09:35 GMT
Any obvious examples of him not being awarded pens that he should have been awarded?
I'm sure Junior will have a link to a Man Utd website handy
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Post by Hicko on Apr 22, 2012 11:27:07 GMT
Another stat, Peter Schmeichel played for Man u for 8/9 yrs and NEVER "won" a penalty for the team.
Another FACT to prove that the referees hate man u.
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Post by Long John Silver on Apr 22, 2012 11:27:44 GMT
Just heard on MUTV that Giggs has won just 5 penalties for Man U in 20 years. Are you telling me that a player of his ability and trickery has only been fouled 5 times in the penalty area in the last 20 years ! And referees are biased towards Man U !!!! He probably needs to get out on the training pitch with Young. |
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Post by amarillo on Apr 23, 2012 9:46:34 GMT
How many penalties a player or team has "won" is irrelevant
To show evidence of bias you need to look at incidents where they should have been given one but weren't - or were given one but shouldn't have been.
Superficially it does seem odd that Giggs hasn't won more over the years, but its pretty meaningless without seeing how many pens other players have won.
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2012 9:57:50 GMT
Conclusion: He's not a diver.
Young got 2 in 1 week because of his Tom Daley impression
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Post by carefreeoufc on Apr 23, 2012 12:19:49 GMT
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 23, 2012 12:41:53 GMT
Interesting page for Junior to have a look at I think, he should be able to do some sort of correlation with it 'all evening out'... |
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Post by baldy on Apr 23, 2012 13:57:01 GMT
The replies here have been a bit petty to be honest. I was genuinely saying don't you think its staggering that Giggs is getting tripped in the penalty area just once in every 160 games of football considering how he has spent the best part of his career weaving between defenders going in to the box and how the sole team he has played for play the game - on the front foot constantly.
I find it an astonishing statistic. You lot obviously don't.
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 23, 2012 14:08:32 GMT
Astonishing in what way? According to the link 'carefreeoufc' posted Man Utd have had 57 penalties since the PL began (which is the most out of any team).
How many do you think he should have won? You are obviously suggesting it should be higher. You are trying to use it as a point to say Man Utd don't get favourable decisions, yet you have ignored Amarillo's very pertinent questions (reply 6), and the similar one from Sihath in reply 3.
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Post by baldy on Apr 23, 2012 14:19:58 GMT
Astonishing in what way? According to the link 'carefreeoufc' posted Man Utd have had 57 penalties since the PL began (which is the most out of any team). How many do you think he should have won? You are obviously suggesting it should be higher. You are trying to use it as a point to say Man Utd don't get favourable decisions, yet you have ignored Amarillo's very pertinent questions (reply 6), and the similar one from Sihath in reply 3. Forget the statistics for a minute. Don't you find it amazing that Giggs has NOT had his shirt tugged, leg knocked, arm held or ankle tapped just once, on average, every four years in effectively the last quarter of the pitch ? Do you think Messi, for example, will win a penalty in the next four years. I think he will, you obviously wont be the slightest bit surprised if he doesn't. Personally, I'd say that thought process of yours is a bit strange. |
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Post by baldy on Apr 23, 2012 14:21:34 GMT
Astonishing in what way? According to the link 'carefreeoufc' posted Man Utd have had 57 penalties since the PL began (which is the most out of any team). How many do you think he should have won? You are obviously suggesting it should be higher. You are trying to use it as a point to say Man Utd don't get favourable decisions, yet you have ignored Amarillo's very pertinent questions (reply 6), and the similar one from Sihath in reply 3. Forget the statistics for a minute. Don't you find it amazing that Giggs has NOT had his shirt tugged, leg knocked, arm held or ankle tapped MORE THAN just once, on average, every four years in effectively the last quarter of the pitch ? Do you think Messi, for example, will win a penalty in the next four years. I think he will, you obviously wont be the slightest bit surprised if he doesn't. Personally, I'd say that thought process of yours is a bit strange. Forgot to add that bit. |
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 23, 2012 14:28:51 GMT
Perhaps people get him before he gets to the box? Perhaps he rides challenges in the box others would go down for? (for example, FA Cup semi v Arsenal). Perhaps his runs generally take him down the touchline instead of more central? Perhaps his starting position is deeper, meaning he uses his pace to get past the defender before even getting to the penalty area? There are loads of reasons why this could be the case.
Giggs isn't one of the 'new breed', and I just can't imagine him going down for slight shirt tugs, and I certainly can't imagine him going down if someone brushes his shin pad.
Some players get more penalties than others. Talking OUFC, how many pens did Chrissy Allen get? Loads of them. Now how many did Kevin Brock get? Or Joey? Or Stuart Massey? Nowhere near the same.
If you take the stat in isolation, then it is interesting, and if I had to guess how many pens he had won in 20 years I would have guessed higher. But without comparison, it's had to say anything.
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2012 14:29:18 GMT
It is surprising if true. Everything about Giggs' career astounds me tbh. Quite incredible that someone could play in one of the best leagues in the world for 21 years and counting...
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Post by sihath on Apr 23, 2012 14:32:19 GMT
No has yet talked about penalties that he should have been awarded.
I'm sure if there were instances of him not getting penalties he should have we'd have heard about it.
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2012 15:13:20 GMT
No has yet talked about penalties that he should have been awarded. I'm sure if there were instances of him not getting penalties he should have we'd have heard about it. I heard the 5 he did get were all blatant dives...... |
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Post by baldy on Apr 23, 2012 15:59:00 GMT
No has yet talked about penalties that he should have been awarded. I'm sure if there were instances of him not getting penalties he should have we'd have heard about it. I've talked about it. That was the whole point of my opening post - catagoric proof that a) Ferguson does NOT encourage diving and, most emphatic of all, b) Man U don't get that much help from officials. At a guess I would say he must have appealed to a referee, say, once every 6 games (about 8 times a a season, seems realistic). 20 years x 8 = 160 appeals and 5 given. Scandalous really when you think about it. If the way Giggs has been treated is indicative of the number of appeals Man U have had rejected on the whole then I make that about 3% of appeals actually awarded. This formula I have devised is a bit hit and miss but it can't be far out. Lets say, being generous, 10% of appeals awarded. Thats a hell of a lot of appeals turned down. Ronaldo and Kanchelskis used to get fouled regularly in the box but referees just waved play on. There would be a national enquiry if they stuck up how many penalties those two won that weren't given. |
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Post by baldy on Apr 23, 2012 16:36:03 GMT
Just had confirmation its Marriner.
Thats 1-0 to City already then.
How the **** does Webb not get this game ?
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Post by davedavies (banned) on Apr 23, 2012 17:16:51 GMT
Ronaldo used to go dive regularly in the penalty box and sometimes " won" a penalty.
Rooney and Young still do. Ferguson certainly encouraged them to dive. All it proves is that
Giggs doesn't dive- perhaps morally he finds it objectionable. As has been pointed out he played a different game.
Another statistic for you- Arsenal haven't been awarded a penalty at the Emirates in the PL for over a year.
Howard Webb doesn't get this game because he has a reputation for making poor decisions in Manchester Untied's favour. Notably against Tottenham Liverpool and Chelsea.
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Post by davedavies (banned) on Apr 23, 2012 17:26:48 GMT
Stats this season Manchester United For 11 ( 2 missed) Three more than any other team Against 3 (1 missed)
Manchester City For 8 (1 missed) Against 3 1 missed
Arsenal For 3 (1 missed ) against 4 1 missed
it all evens out over a season - if you're Manchester United.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Apr 23, 2012 17:30:14 GMT
No has yet talked about penalties that he should have been awarded. I'm sure if there were instances of him not getting penalties he should have we'd have heard about it. I've talked about it. That was the whole point of my opening post - catagoric proof that a) Ferguson does NOT encourage diving and, most emphatic of all, b) Man U don't get that much help from officials. At a guess I would say he must have appealed to a referee, say, once every 6 games (about 8 times a a season, seems realistic). 20 years x 8 = 160 appeals and 5 given.
Scandalous really when you think about it. If the way Giggs has been treated is indicative of the number of appeals Man U have had rejected on the whole then I make that about 3% of appeals actually awarded. This formula I have devised is a bit hit and miss but it can't be far out. Lets say, being generous, 10% of appeals awarded. Thats a hell of a lot of appeals turned down. Ronaldo and Kanchelskis used to get fouled regularly in the box but referees just waved play on. There would be a national enquiry if they stuck up how many penalties those two won that weren't given. That is your guess and many will strongly disagree with you. To guess how many times he's appealed for a penalty and it isn't given and then to call it 'scandalous' just really doesn't stand up on it's own, you'll have to find something a lot more concrete than your own, (even you must admit) biased guess. |
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Post by mintyshoe on Apr 23, 2012 18:03:40 GMT
Can you believe Carrick didn't make the team of the year?
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Post by sihath on Apr 23, 2012 20:37:07 GMT
No has yet talked about penalties that he should have been awarded. I'm sure if there were instances of him not getting penalties he should have we'd have heard about it. I've talked about it. That was the whole point of my opening post - catagoric proof that a) Ferguson does NOT encourage diving and, most emphatic of all, b) Man U don't get that much help from officials. At a guess I would say he must have appealed to a referee, say, once every 6 games (about 8 times a a season, seems realistic). 20 years x 8 = 160 appeals and 5 given. Scandalous really when you think about it. If the way Giggs has been treated is indicative of the number of appeals Man U have had rejected on the whole then I make that about 3% of appeals actually awarded. This formula I have devised is a bit hit and miss but it can't be far out. Lets say, being generous, 10% of appeals awarded. Thats a hell of a lot of appeals turned down. Ronaldo and Kanchelskis used to get fouled regularly in the box but referees just waved play on. There would be a national enquiry if they stuck up how many penalties those two won that weren't given. Well those kind of "facts" would stand up in court!  I've guessed a bit, made up some stats and called it categoric proof. Brilliant. |
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2012 20:40:12 GMT
12/20 sihath....
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Post by sihath on Apr 23, 2012 20:51:34 GMT
I make it 13. Though such a small sample isn't really indicative of an overall pattern. |
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Post by Guest on Apr 23, 2012 21:19:43 GMT
How about if someone worked out responses to baldy?
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Post by longliveclarkey on Apr 23, 2012 21:37:18 GMT
How about if someone worked out responses to baldy? I think there's a pretty solid response already; you can't guess facts off the top of your head like that, call them scandalous and try and build an argument on them. |
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Post by Hicko on Apr 23, 2012 22:42:45 GMT
How about if someone worked out responses to baldy? you want people to respond to stats that have been guessed??? or made up?? i dont think Baldy is the only 1 who's been brainwashed by MUTV |
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