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Post by highlights on Oct 30, 2017 12:26:57 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal:
The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot.
For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority.
Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in.
Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it.
I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar?
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Post by bacon on Oct 30, 2017 12:27:06 GMT
Just got back from a long weekend. Dwight looked ok first half, but woeful second. We lost our rhythm and they pressed our passing game, which never got going after the break. First goal, very sloppy defending and should of pressed the goal, we seemed very static. Second, just chasing the game. Dwight clearly right footed and wanted to turn in all the time, good opportunities but he lacked conviction. Weird how first half, we played well, didn't create an awful lot, one decent chance that Wes should of buried. Fleetwood hardly challenged, not sure Eastwood had a save to make. Second half, clearly be whatever Pep said didn't work. Rothwell made a difference, but came on too late. Josh had a quiet game too, even like ovine watching him lately, but he seemed to stuggle. to get into the into the game. OVERALL, work in progress, definetely need a striker who can score plenty of goals. We've scored 17 goals at home this season. It took us till February last season to get that amount. Why do people keep banging on about a striker? 😴 and only 2 teams have scored more than us in league one
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Post by winchesterox on Oct 30, 2017 12:55:46 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal: The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot. For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority. Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in. Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it. I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar? From the view on Sky highlights it seems that it is more a hit and hope, which paid off handsomely. It was lucky for them rather than skilfully picked out. Grant should have apologised like they do when they fluke it in snooker or tennis.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Oct 30, 2017 13:34:13 GMT
Just got back from a long weekend. Dwight looked ok first half, but woeful second. We lost our rhythm and they pressed our passing game, which never got going after the break. First goal, very sloppy defending and should of pressed the goal, we seemed very static. Second, just chasing the game. Dwight clearly right footed and wanted to turn in all the time, good opportunities but he lacked conviction. Weird how first half, we played well, didn't create an awful lot, one decent chance that Wes should of buried. Fleetwood hardly challenged, not sure Eastwood had a save to make. Second half, clearly be whatever Pep said didn't work. Rothwell made a difference, but came on too late. Josh had a quiet game too, even like ovine watching him lately, but he seemed to stuggle. to get into the into the game. OVERALL, work in progress, definetely need a striker who can score plenty of goals. Rothwell keeps coming on and making a difference unfortunately its usually to our opponents goal tally. 2nd week running he has come on around 70min mark for us to go and concede 10mins later and its about the 5th time this has happened. I know it cant all be the lads fault and he has come on an scored v posh I think but still. Rothwell is ok he puts a shift in taking both Payne and Mowatt off may have had something to do with it.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Oct 30, 2017 13:39:00 GMT
Just got back from a long weekend. Dwight looked ok first half, but woeful second. We lost our rhythm and they pressed our passing game, which never got going after the break. First goal, very sloppy defending and should of pressed the goal, we seemed very static. Second, just chasing the game. Dwight clearly right footed and wanted to turn in all the time, good opportunities but he lacked conviction. Weird how first half, we played well, didn't create an awful lot, one decent chance that Wes should of buried. Fleetwood hardly challenged, not sure Eastwood had a save to make. Second half, clearly be whatever Pep said didn't work. Rothwell made a difference, but came on too late. Josh had a quiet game too, even like ovine watching him lately, but he seemed to stuggle. to get into the into the game. OVERALL, work in progress, definetely need a striker who can score plenty of goals. We've scored 17 goals at home this season. It took us till February last season to get that amount. Why do people keep banging on about a striker? 😴 Probably because we could and should have scored more, Wes was closed down so much on Saturday he had no one to pass to another striker on hand in a strikers position who could possibly score, that’s why. But hey t does also depend on the system Pep plays
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Post by highlights on Oct 30, 2017 13:48:06 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal: The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot. For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority. Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in. Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it. I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar? From the view on Sky highlights it seems that it is more a hit and hope, which paid off handsomely. It was lucky for them rather than skilfully picked out. Grant should have apologised like they do when they fluke it in snooker or tennis. He didn't end up with the ball there by design, obviously, that's not what I'm saying. But if you want to understand why he was in acres of spaces - this is why.
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Post by victor1986 on Oct 30, 2017 14:00:57 GMT
I can't recall hearing Eastwood "yelling his head off" in any match - you're right though; he can "see" everything & should marshall them accordingly. Dreadful by all of them.
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Post by lambchop on Oct 30, 2017 16:03:20 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal: The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot. For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority. Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in. Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it. I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar? Wow, thanks for that I will now be looking at corners etc in a totally different way. BUT if this is a weak link in a game do teams try and use it to their advantage and pray on the PoP being in place after a corner. Is this another reason for a short corner to make the defensive team uncertain if it’s pop or normal play?
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Post by dubaiyellow on Oct 30, 2017 16:28:02 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal: The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot. For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority. Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in. Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it. I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar? Wow, thanks for that I will now be looking at corners etc in a totally different way. BUT if this is a weak link in a game do teams try and use it to their advantage and pray on the PoP being in place after a corner. Is this another reason for a short corner to make the defensive team uncertain if it’s pop or normal play? Sometimes you have to rely on natural instinct, above are we in "corner mode" or "open play" and obviously in this case we didn't. If in doubt, surely the nearest player closes down?, which in this case was Nelson i think (check the highlights), which would probably support highlights comments above about the player being confused, because Nelson, instead of closing down, ran the other way (back into the 6 yard box) to defend what he probably thought was going to be a crossed high ball. Unfortunately he guessed wrong. I guess it was just a split second decision which in this case had the most serious of consequences. I wonder how many of those moments go unnoticed during a match, probably dozens because the end result is rarely a goal. I agree a goalkeeper should be screaming instructions (and not just in these situations) they should be talking and marshalling the defence all match.
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Post by ontheup01 on Oct 30, 2017 17:17:51 GMT
Wow, thanks for that I will now be looking at corners etc in a totally different way. BUT if this is a weak link in a game do teams try and use it to their advantage and pray on the PoP being in place after a corner. Is this another reason for a short corner to make the defensive team uncertain if it’s pop or normal play? Sometimes you have to rely on natural instinct, above are we in "corner mode" or "open play" and obviously in this case we didn't. If in doubt, surely the nearest player closes down?, which in this case was Nelson i think (check the highlights), which would probably support highlights comments above about the player being confused, because Nelson, instead of closing down, ran the other way (back into the 6 yard box) to defend what he probably thought was going to be a crossed high ball. Unfortunately he guessed wrong. I guess it was just a split second decision which in this case had the most serious of consequences. I wonder how many of those moments go unnoticed during a match, probably dozens because the end result is rarely a goal. I agree a goalkeeper should be screaming instructions (and not just in these situations) they should be talking and marshalling the defence all match. Think you'll find we play man for man marking at corners. Nelson was doubling back to get close to his man. Rothwell was not marking anyone and it looks like it was his job to follow the ball back out and block Grant. All happens so quickly but that's how we defend corners. One slip of concentration and a deserved point slipped away. Hope we put a good performance in fir the FA cup.
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Post by highlights on Oct 30, 2017 17:34:58 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal: The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot. For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority. Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in. Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it. I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar? Wow, thanks for that I will now be looking at corners etc in a totally different way. BUT if this is a weak link in a game do teams try and use it to their advantage and pray on the PoP being in place after a corner. Is this another reason for a short corner to make the defensive team uncertain if it’s pop or normal play? Not really. 99 times out of 100, it's a smooth seamless transition, so minor you rarely notice it. Short corners are about creating space for attackers to run into. If the ball moves away from the goal, the defence steps up and it recreates the 'corridor of uncertainty' that attackers can run into. At a corner defenders will physically block your runs or just grab a shirt.
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Post by malcolmsmoustache on Oct 30, 2017 18:03:14 GMT
I think Eastwood is our best keeper since Whitehead. But he should have been getting someone to close his man for that goal much quicker. I cannot understand why he didn't. The best keeper we ever had for "organisation " was Hardwick in the mid 80's. Not the best keeper, but constantly on at his back four. Shame on Saturday. We should have got a point at least....
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Post by dubaiyellow on Oct 31, 2017 6:33:23 GMT
Sometimes you have to rely on natural instinct, above are we in "corner mode" or "open play" and obviously in this case we didn't. If in doubt, surely the nearest player closes down?, which in this case was Nelson i think (check the highlights), which would probably support highlights comments above about the player being confused, because Nelson, instead of closing down, ran the other way (back into the 6 yard box) to defend what he probably thought was going to be a crossed high ball. Unfortunately he guessed wrong. I guess it was just a split second decision which in this case had the most serious of consequences. I wonder how many of those moments go unnoticed during a match, probably dozens because the end result is rarely a goal. I agree a goalkeeper should be screaming instructions (and not just in these situations) they should be talking and marshalling the defence all match. Think you'll find we play man for man marking at corners. Nelson was doubling back to get close to his man. Rothwell was not marking anyone and it looks like it was his job to follow the ball back out and block Grant. All happens so quickly but that's how we defend corners. One slip of concentration and a deserved point slipped away. Hope we put a good performance in fir the FA cup. Okay so here is a scenario to consider. 2 firemen are standing in front of a burning house, one is in charge of the hose and the other shouting instructions. The hose man goes AWOL and the fire gets bigger. What should the other fireman do? 1. Continue shouting instructions and let the house burn? 2. Look for the hose man and let the house burn? 3. Pick up the hose himself and put the fire out?
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Post by ontheup01 on Oct 31, 2017 8:17:47 GMT
Think you'll find we play man for man marking at corners. Nelson was doubling back to get close to his man. Rothwell was not marking anyone and it looks like it was his job to follow the ball back out and block Grant. All happens so quickly but that's how we defend corners. One slip of concentration and a deserved point slipped away. Hope we put a good performance in fir the FA cup. Okay so here is a scenario to consider. 2 firemen are standing in front of a burning house, one is in charge of the hose and the other shouting instructions. The hose man goes AWOL and the fire gets bigger. What should the other fireman do? 1. Continue shouting instructions and let the house burn? 2. Look for the hose man and let the house burn? 3. Pick up the hose himself and put the fire out? Could just wihip it out and pee on it. Oh wait could get a red card for that 😜😜😜
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Post by highlights on Oct 31, 2017 8:55:52 GMT
Think you'll find we play man for man marking at corners. Nelson was doubling back to get close to his man. Rothwell was not marking anyone and it looks like it was his job to follow the ball back out and block Grant. All happens so quickly but that's how we defend corners. One slip of concentration and a deserved point slipped away. Hope we put a good performance in fir the FA cup. Okay so here is a scenario to consider. 2 firemen are standing in front of a burning house, one is in charge of the hose and the other shouting instructions. The hose man goes AWOL and the fire gets bigger. What should the other fireman do? 1. Continue shouting instructions and let the house burn? 2. Look for the hose man and let the house burn? 3. Pick up the hose himself and put the fire out? Of course in hindsight, someone should have taken control. Frankly, anyone. But central defenders in particular, are coached not run off chasing the ball. Their job is primary about marking and tracking. Coaches do their nut if the defender leaves their player or space they are marking to chase the ball. It comes down to another idea about PoP, which you will hear coaches talk about, which is 'Are we in a crisis here?' I.E. Is there an imminent threat of a goal, unless something is done? Here clearly we are, in which case the ball must be closed down. Ironically coaches mainly use this question to promote staying in shape!
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Post by Yellow River on Oct 31, 2017 9:58:57 GMT
Just a quick word on the goal: The short answer to why no-one closed down their player is, it fell between two defensive phases of play. The indecision about which mode we were in allowed the space which allowed the shot. For background, defending corners and other wide set plays you adapt a specific phase of play (PoP for short)- it's not rocket science, players good in the air, regardless of position, go to the middle, smaller players on posts etc. But crucially wide positions are usually abandoned. E.G. the LB stops guarding the left flank, the right winger stops looking after the opposing full back, as defending the middle of the pitch becomes the priority. Usually a corner obviously does or does not return back into open play PoP. E.G. the ball is cleared, positions are taken again. If the ball is cleared to a wide area (headed back to the taker, or a long throw opportunity arises) the corner PoP remains, for obvious reasons. In 99% of cases it's clear which PoP you are in. Here it isn't. Everyone firstly switches off to allow the ball to be salvaged (an error, but an obvious one). But what happens next is easy to see, but not so easy to understand why it happened. Because the ball starts off by being in a wide area, but moving infield, you can see the players looking at each other thinking... Is this now open play? Are we still in corner mode? Where is the LB? Should I cover him? Should I leave my man? If I cover the LB, am I allowing a free header from a cross? This indecision leads to the space. It's a collective failing, and someone obviously should have taken charge of it. I would also ask questions of Eastwood - I would want my keeper yelling his head off at the back line to step up as the ball moves away from goal, otherwise everyone sits in the six yard box, which is what happened. Perhaps he did and they ignored him. And although it took a deflection on the way, it is once again a shot from distance, across Eastwood, conceded on his right side. Sound familiar? I rate Eastwood, and in my limited knowledge of goalkeepers he appears to be a good one at our level. However as has been noted before it does appear he often gets beaten from distance when the ball is struck hard and low across him on his right hand side. Coincidence? Any goalkeepers out there who can explain the reasons why this might be the case?
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Post by botox on Oct 31, 2017 11:51:41 GMT
Still up on last years 5 game blocks, maybe that's a positive
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Post by berliner on Oct 31, 2017 12:31:37 GMT
Coincidence? Any goalkeepers out there who can explain the reasons why this might be the case? Possibly an underlying injury on that side, back, hip, knee, shoulder? Eye problems (see cricketers who slip catch on different sides) Maybe it's just not his stronger side or dominant hand...does he have the same problems on the other side?
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