|
Post by saddletramp on Oct 27, 2017 6:26:51 GMT
I always thought the Poppy appeal was a non political,non race charity,that raised money for all people of all denominations that have suffered through the tragedy of war. I have seen many people of non British origin wearing the poppy. The only people who i have seen object to it are Irish nationalists (despite a war memorial in Dublin to the many Irishman who fought alongside the Allies in both wars) this being obviously due to the "troubles" in Ulster. But no,Wetherspoons have decided that the Poppy is offensive.
|
|
|
Post by saddletramp on Oct 27, 2017 6:34:49 GMT
Apologies,apparently this came from a spoof website. Serves me right for copying and pasting from a facebook post !!
|
|
|
Post by flean on Nov 3, 2017 12:08:59 GMT
Out of interest, is it easy to see if someone's of British origin or not?
|
|
|
Post by unification on Nov 3, 2017 13:34:21 GMT
I always thought the Poppy appeal was a non political,non race charity,that raised money for all people of all denominations that have suffered through the tragedy of war.I have seen many people of non British origin wearing the poppy. The only people who i have seen object to it are Irish nationalists (despite a war memorial in Dublin to the many Irishman who fought alongside the Allies in both wars) this being obviously due to the "troubles" in Ulster. But no,Wetherspoons have decided that the Poppy is offensive. View Attachment The money raised from the poppy appeal is for the British Legion. Their website states that 'Your poppy supports the Armed Forces community, past and present', so whilst not nailing its colours to any particular mast it can be construed as a very British charity appeal for the UK's armed forces and their families. Irish nationalists choose not to wear to a poppy for the reasons that you identify. It's their choice and they shouldn't (nor anyone) feel the need to be coerced into wearing one. Likewise, if someone wants to wear one in their company, they should act with courtesy about it. I know it won't end that way though. Poppy 'fascism' will come to the fore again with somebody no doubt getting furious about someone not wearing one and you know another will enjoy their moment in the limelight by reveling in not wearing one in a big shit-stirring move. Can't we all just get along?!
|
|
|
Post by Gary Baldi on Nov 3, 2017 13:40:04 GMT
Like anything in the modern, every minor disagreement or issue is conflated into a massive issue. The more the media agitates it, the more polar opposites separate from each other and the pointless abuse and posturing occurs and people then won't get along.
If you want to wear a poppy, wear a poppy. If you don't, don't. I care nought for virtue signalling from either side.
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Nov 4, 2017 14:33:08 GMT
Like anything in the modern, every minor disagreement or issue is conflated into a massive issue. The more the media agitates it, the more polar opposites separate from each other and the pointless abuse and posturing occurs and people then won't get along. If you want to wear a poppy, wear a poppy. If you don't, don't. I care nought for virtue signalling from either side. Totally agree. Too many people spout anger about how their grandfather went to war for our freedoms to then insist that everyone has to wear a poppy. Freedom gives us choices and they should be respected. I put into most collection tins in the run up to Rememberance Day but only tend to wear a poppy in the few days leading up to it. We never cared that our footballers wore poppies or if a newsreader was wearing one from the middle of October - but now some see it as a hanging offence! In my view it does nothing for the cause and has made the poppy into more of a political symbol than was ever intended.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on Nov 4, 2017 14:45:48 GMT
I always thought the Poppy appeal was a non political,non race charity,that raised money for all people of all denominations that have suffered through the tragedy of war. I have seen many people of non British origin wearing the poppy. The only people who i have seen object to it are Irish nationalists (despite a war memorial in Dublin to the many Irishman who fought alongside the Allies in both wars) this being obviously due to the "troubles" in Ulster. But no,Wetherspoons have decided that the Poppy is offensive. View AttachmentNow I may be wrong, but u may wanna check out the source. By my reckoning @weatherspoon_uk is a parody account And @jdwtweet is the official account , hence the blue verification tick 😉 Fake news Ignore that now read ur second post 🙈
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Nov 4, 2017 17:30:34 GMT
Hmm, my facebook seems to be full of "lest we forget", "we will remember them" updates...
A few picture of a station guard glaring at an old lady selling poppies with some made up story about she was forced not to sell them outside the station so as not to offend anyone. Turns out the picture is several years old, as it advises people not to travel on a particular date on Sunday, which there hasn't been for three or four years, and so who knows what the actual story behind the picture is.
Whilst I am sure many people genuinely support the armed forces or want to remember the dead, particularly if friends or family served in the wars, this seems to have changed - perhaps it's social media making people able to share views much more publicly than in the past.
There seems to be an element in recent years that these status are a way of being racist without being racist. Being pro-Brexit has been assumed by many to be all about immigration, EDL and Football Lads Alliance similarly get the racism element. So the implication of many people taking on the poppy is perhaps beacuse many of our recent wars have been in muslim countries, so wearing a poppy is really a sign of support for "our boys" against Islam. With the other side of the coin being that if you don't support the poppy appeal, you are effectively backing "the other side" by default.
It is also very easy to counter that by saying the poppy represents all war-dead, whatever country or race or religion, which is a bit of an easy get out.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on Nov 4, 2017 17:35:12 GMT
My thoughts
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.
Not racist, not glorifying war, not a protest.
Simply remembering those who laid down their lives and continue to do so for our freedom and against injustices.
|
|
|
Post by ox4eva on Nov 5, 2017 7:38:54 GMT
I have been honoured to be asked to lay a wreath at a cenotaph in the past. Let me say this and it's the way I see it.
When we honour those who paid the supreme sacrifice we honour all no matter race, religion and background. It's the same with wearing a poppy, it's commemorating all and it's about respect.
I notice yet again only one club in Britain that does not do this..
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Nov 5, 2017 7:43:21 GMT
My thoughts They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. Not racist, not glorifying war, not a protest. Simply remembering those who laid down their lives and continue to do so for our freedom and against injustices. The original message, and the one the vast majority continue to uphold, is correct. However the poppy has become a political symbol by some in the same way St. George's cross also became a symbol a decade or 2 back. The far right have used the poppy as part of an anti-Islam agenda and ignorant people perpetuate that agenda in the same way ignorant Muslims tarnish the original message. If we truly respect the freedoms others have given their lives for, we should also respect that everyone has a choice to wear a poppy or not. We should also challenge the Britain Firsts of this world for misusing the poppy and educate the ignorant regardless of their background. Maybe then, the lives of so many, really will have helped make a better world.
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Nov 5, 2017 7:45:17 GMT
I have been honoured to be asked to lay a wreath at a cenotaph in the past. Let me say this and it's the way I see it. When we honour those who paid the supreme sacrifice we honour all no matter race, religion and background. It's the same with wearing a poppy, it's commemorating all and it's about respect. I notice yet again only one club in Britain that does not do this.. And we should respect their right not to. The poppy should not be a symbol that is enforced on others.
|
|
|
Post by ox4eva on Nov 5, 2017 7:57:26 GMT
I have been honoured to be asked to lay a wreath at a cenotaph in the past. Let me say this and it's the way I see it. When we honour those who paid the supreme sacrifice we honour all no matter race, religion and background. It's the same with wearing a poppy, it's commemorating all and it's about respect. I notice yet again only one club in Britain that does not do this.. And we should respect their right not to. The poppy should not be a symbol that is enforced on others. I respect everyone's right, this lot have other vile sinister reasons for not wearing it! They make a token donation to try and buy their way out of it. They like others forget many of their own fought and died for these freedoms. I notice you talk of the right wing using the poppy but conveniently forget the left wings abuse towards remembrance!
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Nov 5, 2017 8:08:20 GMT
And we should respect their right not to. The poppy should not be a symbol that is enforced on others. I respect everyone's right, this lot have other vile sinister reasons for not wearing it! They make a token donation to try and buy their way out of it. They like others forget many of their own fought and died for these freedoms. I notice you talk of the right wing using the poppy but conveniently forget the left wings abuse towards remembrance! Because, unlike you, I tried not to politicise the poppy. Do the far right distort the image of the poppy? Yes. Do the left abuse what it stands for? Yes. Do different religions see it as something that it isn't? Yes. They are all wrong, and at the extremes, some are indeed vile. But if the poppy represents our freedoms then we need to respect that not everyone will agree with wearing one.
|
|
|
Post by ox4eva on Nov 5, 2017 8:21:36 GMT
I respect everyone's right, this lot have other vile sinister reasons for not wearing it! They make a token donation to try and buy their way out of it. They like others forget many of their own fought and died for these freedoms. I notice you talk of the right wing using the poppy but conveniently forget the left wings abuse towards remembrance! Because, unlike you, I tried not to politicise the poppy. Do the far right distort the image of the poppy? Yes. Do the left abuse what it stands for? Yes. Do different religions see it as something that it isn't? Yes. They are all wrong, and at the extremes, some are indeed vile. But if the poppy represents our freedoms then we need to respect that not everyone will agree with wearing one. I am not making a poppy a political symbol, I have already said it's to remember all no matter who they are. It's some of those who refuse to acknowledge it who try and make it a political issue!
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Nov 5, 2017 8:33:02 GMT
Because, unlike you, I tried not to politicise the poppy. Do the far right distort the image of the poppy? Yes. Do the left abuse what it stands for? Yes. Do different religions see it as something that it isn't? Yes. They are all wrong, and at the extremes, some are indeed vile. But if the poppy represents our freedoms then we need to respect that not everyone will agree with wearing one. I am not making a poppy a political symbol, I have already said it's to remember all no matter who they are. It's some of those who refuse to acknowledge it who try and make it a political issue! It's simple. Ignore them and it is no longer a political issue.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on Nov 5, 2017 8:34:14 GMT
My thoughts They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them. Not racist, not glorifying war, not a protest. Simply remembering those who laid down their lives and continue to do so for our freedom and against injustices. The original message, and the one the vast majority continue to uphold, is correct. However the poppy has become a political symbol by some in the same way St. George's cross also became a symbol a decade or 2 back. The far right have used the poppy as part of an anti-Islam agenda and ignorant people perpetuate that agenda in the same way ignorant Muslims tarnish the original message. If we truly respect the freedoms others have given their lives for, we should also respect that everyone has a choice to wear a poppy or not. We should also challenge the Britain Firsts of this world for misusing the poppy and educate the ignorant regardless of their background. Maybe then, the lives of so many, really will have helped make a better world. Where have I said people shouldn’t have the right to not wear it ? I was asked for my view . And as I’m not a member of Britain First that is my view. We shouldn’t stop remembering those that gave everything because some want to make it a symbol for something else, as u say it’s the original message and the one the vast majority stick to. So u will have to excuse me for ignoring any other meaning but continuing to honour those that have laid down their lives and those that continue to run into danger when the rest of us are running the other way.
|
|
|
Post by scotchegg on Nov 5, 2017 8:40:45 GMT
The original message, and the one the vast majority continue to uphold, is correct. However the poppy has become a political symbol by some in the same way St. George's cross also became a symbol a decade or 2 back. The far right have used the poppy as part of an anti-Islam agenda and ignorant people perpetuate that agenda in the same way ignorant Muslims tarnish the original message. If we truly respect the freedoms others have given their lives for, we should also respect that everyone has a choice to wear a poppy or not. We should also challenge the Britain Firsts of this world for misusing the poppy and educate the ignorant regardless of their background. Maybe then, the lives of so many, really will have helped make a better world. Where have I said people shouldn’t have the right to not wear it ? I was asked for my view . And as I’m not a member of Britain First that is my view. We shouldn’t stop remembering those that gave everything because some want to make it a symbol for something else, as u say it’s the original message and the one the vast majority stick to. So u will have to excuse me for ignoring any other meaning but continuing to honour those that have laid down their lives and those that continue to run into danger when the rest of us are running the other way. As I've said, I whole heartedly agree with the true message behind the poppy and the message you too hold. Unfortunately, it is those who have distorted the image who then try to force the poppy on to others. If should never be something that people feel they have to wear. They should understand enough about the sacrifices of others so that they choose to honour those sacrifices. The poppy should always be worn with pride and not out of fear for not wearing one.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 5, 2017 10:55:47 GMT
I have been honoured to be asked to lay a wreath at a cenotaph in the past. Let me say this and it's the way I see it. You must be even prouder than usual. Respect! May I ask who asked you, or what organisation they represent?
|
|
|
Post by ox4eva on Nov 5, 2017 11:15:02 GMT
I have been honoured to be asked to lay a wreath at a cenotaph in the past. Let me say this and it's the way I see it. You must be even prouder than usual. Respect! May I ask who asked you, or what organisation they represent? Regimental association.
|
|
|
Post by oldham on Nov 5, 2017 12:29:23 GMT
You must be even prouder than usual. Respect! May I ask who asked you, or what organisation they represent? Regimental association. So you served in the armed forces then?
|
|
|
Post by ox4eva on Nov 5, 2017 13:50:10 GMT
So you served in the armed forces then? Yes
|
|
|
Post by oldham on Nov 5, 2017 13:56:13 GMT
That’s good, Who were you with?
|
|
|
Post by ox4eva on Nov 5, 2017 14:23:03 GMT
That’s good, Who were you with? It's not something I really want to discuss on here, I am happy being just another regular 'bigot' in some people's eyes..
|
|
|
Post by oldham on Nov 5, 2017 14:53:47 GMT
Fair enough, it’s all about having a choice.
|
|
|
Post by mojofilter on Nov 5, 2017 16:08:59 GMT
My personal feeling is that I will wear a poppy until those who fought due to conscription/national service are all gone. I may wear it after then but it will take a lot of thinking; there is something about the fact that people fought who will not have otherwise done so that makes it more worth commemorating because it was ordinary people. When people join the armed forces these days (or even since national service ended) it is their choice to do so and I would imagine they know the risks involved.
But I agree with the general sentiment that the worst thing about the poppy is caring at all whether other people are or are not wearing them.
|
|
|
Post by winchesterox on Nov 5, 2017 18:02:23 GMT
It is sad that anyone should refuse to wear a poppy for political reasons.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 5, 2017 19:28:52 GMT
Equally sad that anyone would wear a poppy for political reasons.
I used to, for those like my dad and his mates who signed on or were conscripted in WW2.
Lately (30 years or more) it's been about choosing to be professional soldiers in exercises that are to say the least questionable. Soldiers have a moral duty to consider what they fight for; I won't wear a poppy.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Nov 5, 2017 20:43:18 GMT
The wise words of the WWI veterans have been forgotten by many. Their suffering distorted and used in arguments on Brexit.
|
|
|
Post by ian on Nov 5, 2017 20:47:00 GMT
The greatest tribute to those caught up in The Great War and subsequent WWII is to shun nationalism and to develop more connections and friendships with people from all over the world - whatever their skin colour or religion.
|
|