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Post by mooro on Sept 5, 2017 12:31:43 GMT
I think you are getting confused, "the golden generation of the early 90s ?" What i remember of the early 90s is Graham Taylor picking players like Geoff Thomas and Carlton Palmer and failing to qualify for the WC in the USA. Not one of the players mentioned above played in Euro 96. Gerrard made his debut in 2000.
I guess some of the players pictured above are representative of what some saw as a 'Golden generation'? A lot of talented individuals, but ultimately they failed to live up to the hype.
England line-up to face Switzerland at the 2004 European Championships in Portugal. The team is (back row left to right) Sol Campbell, John Terry, David James, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Frank Lampard. (Front row left to right) Steven Gerrard, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Ashley Cole.
Wow - when you match that lot up to the current crop it is not difficult to see what a tough job Southgate has (though interesting to note how many have had 'off-the-field' issues either then or since)
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Post by foley on Sept 5, 2017 12:40:28 GMT
I guess some of the players pictured above are representative of what some saw as a 'Golden generation'? A lot of talented individuals, but ultimately they failed to live up to the hype.
England line-up to face Switzerland at the 2004 European Championships in Portugal. The team is (back row left to right) Sol Campbell, John Terry, David James, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Frank Lampard. (Front row left to right) Steven Gerrard, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Ashley Cole.
Wow - when you match that lot up to the current crop it is not difficult to see what a tough job Southgate has (though interesting to note how many have had 'off-the-field' issues either then or since) Exactly. What surprises me is that the football team gets a real kicking throughout the media. In reality we have probably the worst crop of players for years and years. But there are quite a few youngsters coming through and the team try even though they are lacking in quality. When we get knocked out in the next tournament (not forgetting that Holland may not even qualify again), people will forget the fact that we are an average team and expectations should be that we will do reasonably well to get through the group stages. Quarter finals would be a major achievement with the players we currently have.
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Post by dubaiyellow on Sept 5, 2017 16:27:24 GMT
Wow - when you match that lot up to the current crop it is not difficult to see what a tough job Southgate has (though interesting to note how many have had 'off-the-field' issues either then or since) Exactly. What surprises me is that the football team gets a real kicking throughout the media. In reality we have probably the worst crop of players for years and years. But there are quite a few youngsters coming through and the team try even though they are lacking in quality. When we get knocked out in the next tournament (not forgetting that Holland may not even qualify again), people will forget the fact that we are an average team and expectations should be that we will do reasonably well to get through the group stages. Quarter finals would be a major achievement with the players we currently have. At least the standard of goalkeeper is about the same For me, of the team that started last night, only Ali and Rashford are worth talking about, more so the latter, Rashford looks a top quality prospect. The rest are average/good premiership players. Jones also is playing well at the moment, otherwise its all a bit uninspiring. Watched the game, thought there were some shocking decisions in the final 3rd, lots of have a go heroes, only thinking of themselves and getting a shot off, hopefully Obika was watching, seeing the best players in England do it will have made him feel a lot better about that non-pass/shot on Saturday.
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Post by tonyw on Sept 5, 2017 16:59:29 GMT
I guess some of the players pictured above are representative of what some saw as a 'Golden generation'? A lot of talented individuals, but ultimately they failed to live up to the hype. England line-up to face Switzerland at the 2004 European Championships in Portugal. The team is (back row left to right) Sol Campbell, John Terry, David James, Wayne Rooney, Michael Owen, Frank Lampard. (Front row left to right) Steven Gerrard, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Ashley Cole. If you look at that team, at the peak of their careers (which admittedly didn't all happen at the same time), every one of those outfield players could have been considered World Class. Meaning (for me) that whilst they might not have gotten into a World XI, they would have at least been in the conversation for a World XXII. The fact that none of them even managed to get beyond a major championship Quarter Final whilst playing for England is frankly pathetic, and reflects badly on them and the FA. The current England team is lightyears behind that 2004 team in terms of talent, even if there is some hope for the future. So some credit is due for what looks like a comfortable passage through qualifying, even if it was a spectacularly easy group.
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Post by MJB on Sept 5, 2017 18:25:22 GMT
Exactly. What surprises me is that the football team gets a real kicking throughout the media. In reality we have probably the worst crop of players for years and years. But there are quite a few youngsters coming through and the team try even though they are lacking in quality. When we get knocked out in the next tournament (not forgetting that Holland may not even qualify again), people will forget the fact that we are an average team and expectations should be that we will do reasonably well to get through the group stages. Quarter finals would be a major achievement with the players we currently have. At least the standard of goalkeeper is about the same For me, of the team that started last night, only Ali and Rashford are worth talking about, more so the latter, Rashford looks a top quality prospect. The rest are average/good premiership players. Jones also is playing well at the moment, otherwise its all a bit uninspiring. Watched the game, thought there were some shocking decisions in the final 3rd, lots of have a go heroes, only thinking of themselves and getting a shot off, hopefully Obika was watching, seeing the best players in England do it will have made him feel a lot better about that non-pass/shot on Saturday. Bit harsh on Kane.
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 5, 2017 19:27:01 GMT
No passion and that pisses me off more than anything!
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Post by foley on Sept 5, 2017 20:58:23 GMT
Exactly. What surprises me is that the football team gets a real kicking throughout the media. In reality we have probably the worst crop of players for years and years. But there are quite a few youngsters coming through and the team try even though they are lacking in quality. When we get knocked out in the next tournament (not forgetting that Holland may not even qualify again), people will forget the fact that we are an average team and expectations should be that we will do reasonably well to get through the group stages. Quarter finals would be a major achievement with the players we currently have. At least the standard of goalkeeper is about the same For me, of the team that started last night, only Ali and Rashford are worth talking about, more so the latter, Rashford looks a top quality prospect. The rest are average/good premiership players. Jones also is playing well at the moment, otherwise its all a bit uninspiring. Watched the game, thought there were some shocking decisions in the final 3rd, lots of have a go heroes, only thinking of themselves and getting a shot off, hopefully Obika was watching, seeing the best players in England do it will have made him feel a lot better about that non-pass/shot on Saturday. Seriiously? So Kane has scored 21, 25, 29 goals in the past 3 season in the Premiership. So 75 goals in 102 games. Didn't Pep or Mourinho say that Kane was an ideal centre forward. And he is only an average/ good premiership player?
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Post by saddletramp on Sept 5, 2017 21:09:21 GMT
No passion and that pisses me off more than anything! Passion,the most over hyped word in football. What actually is "passion" on a football pitch ? Running around Charging into tackles ? pushing and shoving,getting in your opponents face ? Getting yellows and reds by the dozen ? Giving refs the finger ? In that case, Joey Barton had passion, Paolo Di Canio had passion, even Billy the Whale had passion. Is that what you want from England players ? Great footballers keep calm,play football and don't let tension/atmosphere (passion) interfere with their game. Probably the 2 greatest England players of all time,Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore were also the most laid back.
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Post by worleox42 on Sept 5, 2017 21:10:16 GMT
Whole team were terrible, agree with most, lacked passion and for so called best players in this country, they struggled to pass it to each other.
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Post by saddletramp on Sept 5, 2017 21:10:59 GMT
At least the standard of goalkeeper is about the same For me, of the team that started last night, only Ali and Rashford are worth talking about, more so the latter, Rashford looks a top quality prospect. The rest are average/good premiership players. Jones also is playing well at the moment, otherwise its all a bit uninspiring. Watched the game, thought there were some shocking decisions in the final 3rd, lots of have a go heroes, only thinking of themselves and getting a shot off, hopefully Obika was watching, seeing the best players in England do it will have made him feel a lot better about that non-pass/shot on Saturday. Seriiously? So Kane has scored 21, 25, 29 goals in the past 3 season in the Premiership. So 75 goals in 102 games. Didn't Pep or Mourinho say that Kane was an ideal centre forward. And he is only an average/ good premiership player? Definitely average in August
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Post by dannyc on Sept 6, 2017 2:43:37 GMT
typical england bashing we have alot young players who are not in there prime yet hell rashford is only 19 you telling me he wont get better same for dier kane and ali funy how france drew with Luxembourg and no one says anything had that been England everyone would be taking the p*ss out of England .
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Post by johnf on Sept 6, 2017 6:51:21 GMT
To be honest I thought England played well on Monday after a poor start and came through a difficult match against our closest rivals to qualify. We have some good young players who will get better. I think a lot of countries would love to be in England's position at this stage of qualifying for the World Cup
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Post by carefreeoufc on Sept 6, 2017 6:59:00 GMT
Dicanio did have passion as a player as he does as a Manager. He also scored fairly regularly throughout his entire career.
I can think of a number of forwards over the years that have played for England, showed little/no passion and weren't as good.
David Beckham vs Greece shows a player with passion, although at the time he was top of his game.
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Post by dubaiyellow on Sept 6, 2017 7:14:36 GMT
At least the standard of goalkeeper is about the same For me, of the team that started last night, only Ali and Rashford are worth talking about, more so the latter, Rashford looks a top quality prospect. The rest are average/good premiership players. Jones also is playing well at the moment, otherwise its all a bit uninspiring. Watched the game, thought there were some shocking decisions in the final 3rd, lots of have a go heroes, only thinking of themselves and getting a shot off, hopefully Obika was watching, seeing the best players in England do it will have made him feel a lot better about that non-pass/shot on Saturday. Seriiously? So Kane has scored 21, 25, 29 goals in the past 3 season in the Premiership. So 75 goals in 102 games. Didn't Pep or Mourinho say that Kane was an ideal centre forward. And he is only an average/ good premiership player? Okay youre right, maybe i am being harsh on Kane, i didnt realise his stats were that good (for both Tot and Eng), too busy following Oxford, so he is a great premiership player. He also has the potential to be a great player for England. I do actually think we are going to have a very good England team within the next 10 years.
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Post by saddletramp on Sept 6, 2017 7:32:45 GMT
Dicanio did have passion as a player as he does as a Manager. He also scored fairly regularly throughout his entire career. I can think of a number of forwards over the years that have played for England, showed little/no passion and weren't as good. David Beckham vs Greece shows a player with passion, although at the time he was top of his game. Still don't get this "passion" thing. If you are a silky skillful player,whose game is based on quick thinking and a subtle first touch,you float around looking for space and creating space for others,does that mean you are passionlesss ? If you are a raging bull type player,charging around,putting your body on the line,closing down players,basically running yourself into the ground,(playing with passion) does that make you a better player ? Would you have Andy Carroll over Teddy Sheringham ? Danny Hylton over Joey Beauchamp ? When England win well,E.G.Germany 5-1,its all about the skill and the goals. When England don't play well its all about the "lack of passion" P.S. Their are exceptions,The Beckham performance against Greece was one man carrying the team with his passion,on the other hand his "passion" got him sent off against Argentina and possibly cost England the WC !!
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Post by bigronaldo on Sept 6, 2017 8:21:22 GMT
I think passion and pride are important, but not nearly as important as just having confidence and skill. That great England team above still didn't win anything though, even with all of its obvious attributes. So clearly, the passion/pride/skill and confidence of Rooney, Gerrard and co was still not enough. I think that we can draw some comparisons with Spain, who, for years were the fancied team to win euros and world cups only to Fail time after time. This current crop of players may not be as gifted as those that have gone before, but don't write them off just yet. No-one would have believed that Greece would win a euro championship, but they did. Denmark too. Our failings of the past shouldn't cloud the potential of the future. Our younger England teams are tearing it up and, if we can provide those players with the opportunities to improve, then why should we not be confident that they can bring success back to our national team? This country really is the home of Football. We must hope that we will all live to see an England side prove that the wait has been worth it. I think that the country would go nuts!!!
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Post by oufc28 on Sept 6, 2017 9:39:00 GMT
The game on Monday reminded me of the Shrewsbury game a few weeks ago. A team that most people would have thought we would have strolled past but surprised everyone and played some great football. Slovakia have a few names in the team like hamsik and weiss who have played at the top level, but as a team they played some outstanding football at times. Even in the second half when England were defending and pressing well the slovakian team put a couple of beautiful one touch moves together. Make no mistake they were a good side on the attacking front. Defensively they were fairly poor and if England's decision making and finishing was better we would have won more comfortably.
The goalkeeping situation needs to be changed, Joe Hart as has been a great keeper but I don't believe he is international level anymore, I'd go for pickford or forster personally.
As has been mentioned before the wingbacks are two very talented players but and being wasted by the the wide players not doing there roles properly. Chamberlain was woeful most of the night and I'd have bought sterling on a lot sooner.
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 6, 2017 11:21:46 GMT
No passion and that pisses me off more than anything! Passion,the most over hyped word in football. What actually is "passion" on a football pitch ? Running around Charging into tackles ? pushing and shoving,getting in your opponents face ? Getting yellows and reds by the dozen ? Giving refs the finger ? In that case, Joey Barton had passion, Paolo Di Canio had passion, even Billy the Whale had passion. Is that what you want from England players ? Great footballers keep calm,play football and don't let tension/atmosphere (passion) interfere with their game. Probably the 2 greatest England players of all time,Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore were also the most laid back. Passion and pride to play for their country. Fighting for every ball and giving your all! As we have 11 pampered millionaires who under perform when they play for England I would rather have someone giving 100%.
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