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Post by newyorkyellow on Sept 1, 2017 1:41:44 GMT
To somewhat echo the above, I am keeping one eye on the future. Our signings this summer have almost entirely been either loans who represent no equity to ourselves, and 30-something's who are worthless due to age. Two or three mid-late twenties signings (either for free or barely any money) but overall 30+ or loans. Which means beyond Ledson and Nelson, possibly Eastwood, we've largely depleted our previously growing stock of good young players with a high re-sale value. We've been told young PL players have priced themselves out of moves. Well, perhaps this is becoming more of a problem. Maybe so. But it was only 12 months ago that Joe Rothwell left Man United to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that Ryan Ledson left Everton to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed a brilliant and incredibly sought after player from a lower league club for 200k+ in Curtis Nelson. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Marvin Johnson for 400k+ from the SPL. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Kane Hemmings from the SPL for 250k+ etc. We were not just spending money, we were spending it wisely on good, talented young players from all levels of the British game. Players in their early to mid twenties with huge potential and who were willing to come to us, who we were willing to pay for, and whose wage demands we were able to satisfy on top of previous good earners like Maguire, Lundstram etc. So if it's changed, it's changed almost overnight. We've also brought in way more in sales and compo this summer than we did last summer, probably about double, had our best cup runs yet across the board before then and have lost a good batch of high earners. We've also stuck match ticket and season ticket prices through the roof. All in all, we should be at least as flush as last summer when we spent a million quid on fees and offered enough to make PL youngsters and shit hot prospects alike feel it was worth their while. Those are things that happened only a year ago. Yet our spending is seemingly way down, the type of player arriving is not built on future sale value to the extent it once was, and it all seems a bit... not right. It seems weird. I can't put my finger on it. Even this summer we've learned that we couldn't finalise a 350k deal for a SPL defender and then couldn't get another 400k odd deal over the line for the Motherwell lad. We were sealing those deals a year ago for similar fees and despite being total newcomers to the third tier. Now we are firmly considered a top 10 side in this league and have filled the coffers more than ever, but we can't land them? And we can't get PL youngsters to come? And we can't hook the best talent from the division below? We can't do ANY of those things we did literally one year ago? Before anyone accuses me of moaning, living in fantasy land, being a conspiracist etc - I'm not. I'm fairly happy with the way things stand and with how deadline day went. Not elated but fine, I'm alright with it. I've also stuck up for DE a few times because I do think some people are just grinding axes excessively. I'm pretty level and neutral on everything. All I'm saying is, when you look at this summer versus last, a lot of things don't quite seem to stack up. We've earned MUCH more but spent literally a fraction of what we did prior in fees, stuck our ticket prices sky high and although we MIGHT have managed to increase the wage bill, it doesn't quite seem in line with the bigger picture. And we now have our least amount of sellable assets in the last couple of years. They're nearly all gone when usually we've had five or six at any given time. So in a year when two or three of the older recruits move on or slow down further, and the last couple of assets are moved on because they only have a year left on their deals, where does that leave us? What's the plan beyond this season? Or FOR this season, actually? Because we haven't clearly gone all out for promotion, but nor have we kept our supply of youthful and potentially valuable prospects stocked as high as previous years. So it appears much more of a grey area than we've seen for some time now. I'm sure I'll take a pasting for even daring to ask some of these questions or express any slight doubts or concerns, but it is what it is. I've given legitimate reasons for why I feel a tad uneasy about things beyond this season and if that makes me a negative nelly then so be it. I'll still be at virtually every game home and away, and I'll still cheer every goal and every win gleefully. I like everybody here will always love and support the club. I'm just ever so slightly curious as to the bigger picture, that's all. No mate, this is a good analysis and a rational perspective. If I can bring some positives to it for you....if Ruffles continues the way he's going we could get money for him, who knows the selling potential of the likes of GVK, Xemi and Napa? Truth is, although players are older and I agree we are different to the Appleton/Ashton business model, until we see how these players play together and develop we could have a better current on the field team. (Could be worse as well!) Could add Rothwell to that list of players, I've always rated him and he's by no means fulfilled his potential yet...
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Post by newyorkyellow on Sept 1, 2017 1:53:15 GMT
No mate, this is a good analysis and a rational perspective. If I can bring some positives to it for you....if Ruffles continues the way he's going we could get money for him, who knows the selling potential of the likes of GVK, Xemi and Napa? Truth is, although players are older and I agree we are different to the Appleton/Ashton business model, until we see how these players play together and develop we could have a better current on the field team. (Could be worse as well!) Could add Rothwell to that list of players, I've always rated him and he's by no means fulfilled his potential yet... And without waffling on too much, I'm a coach so I look at the possibilities that come with a good coaching staff, which I believe we have. I think it's played a massive part in the development of Roofe, Odowda, Dunkley, Lundstram Eastwood. Good coaching coupled with players with the right attitude could continue to still bring on the likes of Ruffles, Rothwell, Carroll, Xemi, GVK, Napa etc
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Post by plonker on Sept 1, 2017 2:21:50 GMT
Ruffels is out of contract next year, so he could leave for nothing. So are Hall and Rothwell (based on their reported contracts when they signed). Although Hall and Rothwell may have +1 options in their contracts that weren't made public at the time they signed, I suppose. We'd receive some compensation for Rothwell if he did leave next year.
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Post by eighteen93 on Sept 1, 2017 4:50:30 GMT
[
Sheff.Utd had three big deals lined up including Devante Cole at Fleetwood, Brentford's John Egan and possibly Ryan Leonard from Southend.
Wilder basically slamming outside forces i.e agents - lots of deals apparently did not get done yesterday.
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Post by fourthstand on Sept 1, 2017 5:39:01 GMT
[ Sheff.Utd had three big deals lined up including Devante Cole at Fleetwood, Brentford's John Egan and possibly Ryan Leonard from Southend. Wilder basically slamming outside forces i.e agents - lots of deals apparently did not get done yesterday. Looks like he's been dipped in a vat of cuprinol. Trappings of wealth eh Chippy?
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Post by carefreeoufc on Sept 1, 2017 5:45:00 GMT
To somewhat echo the above, I am keeping one eye on the future. Our signings this summer have almost entirely been either loans who represent no equity to ourselves, and 30-something's who are worthless due to age. Two or three mid-late twenties signings (either for free or barely any money) but overall 30+ or loans. Which means beyond Ledson and Nelson, possibly Eastwood, we've largely depleted our previously growing stock of good young players with a high re-sale value. We've been told young PL players have priced themselves out of moves. Well, perhaps this is becoming more of a problem. Maybe so. But it was only 12 months ago that Joe Rothwell left Man United to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that Ryan Ledson left Everton to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed a brilliant and incredibly sought after player from a lower league club for 200k+ in Curtis Nelson. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Marvin Johnson for 400k+ from the SPL. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Kane Hemmings from the SPL for 250k+ etc. We were not just spending money, we were spending it wisely on good, talented young players from all levels of the British game. Players in their early to mid twenties with huge potential and who were willing to come to us, who we were willing to pay for, and whose wage demands we were able to satisfy on top of previous good earners like Maguire, Lundstram etc. So if it's changed, it's changed almost overnight. We've also brought in way more in sales and compo this summer than we did last summer, probably about double, had our best cup runs yet across the board before then and have lost a good batch of high earners. We've also stuck match ticket and season ticket prices through the roof. All in all, we should be at least as flush as last summer when we spent a million quid on fees and offered enough to make PL youngsters and shit hot prospects alike feel it was worth their while. Those are things that happened only a year ago. Yet our spending is seemingly way down, the type of player arriving is not built on future sale value to the extent it once was, and it all seems a bit... not right. It seems weird. I can't put my finger on it. Even this summer we've learned that we couldn't finalise a 350k deal for a SPL defender and then couldn't get another 400k odd deal over the line for the Motherwell lad. We were sealing those deals a year ago for similar fees and despite being total newcomers to the third tier. Now we are firmly considered a top 10 side in this league and have filled the coffers more than ever, but we can't land them? And we can't get PL youngsters to come? And we can't hook the best talent from the division below? We can't do ANY of those things we did literally one year ago? Before anyone accuses me of moaning, living in fantasy land, being a conspiracist etc - I'm not. I'm fairly happy with the way things stand and with how deadline day went. Not elated but fine, I'm alright with it. I've also stuck up for DE a few times because I do think some people are just grinding axes excessively. I'm pretty level and neutral on everything. All I'm saying is, when you look at this summer versus last, a lot of things don't quite seem to stack up. We've earned MUCH more but spent literally a fraction of what we did prior in fees, stuck our ticket prices sky high and although we MIGHT have managed to increase the wage bill, it doesn't quite seem in line with the bigger picture. And we now have our least amount of sellable assets in the last couple of years. They're nearly all gone when usually we've had five or six at any given time. So in a year when two or three of the older recruits move on or slow down further, and the last couple of assets are moved on because they only have a year left on their deals, where does that leave us? What's the plan beyond this season? Or FOR this season, actually? Because we haven't clearly gone all out for promotion, but nor have we kept our supply of youthful and potentially valuable prospects stocked as high as previous years. So it appears much more of a grey area than we've seen for some time now. I'm sure I'll take a pasting for even daring to ask some of these questions or express any slight doubts or concerns, but it is what it is. I've given legitimate reasons for why I feel a tad uneasy about things beyond this season and if that makes me a negative nelly then so be it. I'll still be at virtually every game home and away, and I'll still cheer every goal and every win gleefully. I like everybody here will always love and support the club. I'm just ever so slightly curious as to the bigger picture, that's all. Is the key difference that we no longer have Appleton in charge? The backroom staff (recruitment and coaches) has not changed in the last 12 months since we purchased said players only the manager. I don't know enough about Pep but could it be that he is operating in the way he knows best? In recent years he has been a coach at clubs who haven't necessarily had to use a buy/develop/sell model. I too am uneasy as for the first time in my time watching Oxford we were signing players who performed well, were top young athletes and would bring the club an income to reinvest each season as we looked to move forward. As a relative youngster who missed the glory years some of our signings feel a bit like the Wilder days (superior quality don't get me wrong) and I'd hoped we'd moved away from that. Looking aside from value to oufc and whether they are owned I personally feel the squad is stronger than last season. Each player has been impressed with a better quality player. OK they bring no resale value and some can be recalled in Jan but I think it's wrong to say that they aren't an actual improvement. My biggest concern comes for the end of this season as we will have only a few assets (who based on this summer) will be sold if offers come in for them. Leaving us with a team of fairly old players with recent injury issues. Either Eales is going to leave before the end of the season or he's going to have to invest heavily next season which he could and should have done this season based on all the talk of top 6 budgets. I really hope this doesn't turn into the final couple of seasons of the IL/CW era which killed off so much of the good early work.
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Post by uptheus on Sept 1, 2017 6:04:24 GMT
Eales/club haven't invested what they said they would and haven't continued with the same model either, and those two things alone would raise concerns/questions.
Since the stadium debacle raised it's ugly head towards the end of last year, there has definitely been a shift in terms of the way it has felt at the club and Darryl's attitude/position. The club always harp on about only wanting players that want to be at the club which I fully endorse, but I get the feeling that even Darryl doesn't hold true to this belief, especially going by his own actions/latest investments.
I truly get the feeling that Darryl is cashing in on his assets before moving on. Not sure of the timeframe, but I'd guess he won't be here this time next year. This is his last throw of the dice/half hearted gamble with only limited chips on the table.
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Post by oxfordyankee on Sept 1, 2017 6:12:55 GMT
Did they really try for a striker? Did they really want to spend money on a big transfer? I don't think any of us really know the truth.
What we do know is that Ashton's model will now start to flounder. The sale of the last two recognised saleable assets (RL & CN) would hurt the team so much that to sell them would be dangerous. That's only a problem if you don't replace the stock, which we did not.
Eales needs to extend their contracts, just like Peterborough did with Maddison. Take some of the £4m and secure their future. If we do not, we will end up with Lundstram-esque situations next year and lose out significantly.
This window was very short-term in its thinking. Assets sold, some good replacements in, but importantly, not ours. Good enough to mount a challenge? Maybe. Good enough to keep a bandwagon going that sees us barely react to selling a player for £3m, nowhere near.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Sept 1, 2017 7:01:53 GMT
Eales/club haven't invested what they said they would and haven't continued with the same model either, and those two things alone would raise concerns/questions. Since the stadium debacle raised it's ugly head towards the end of last year, there has definitely been a shift in terms of the way it has felt at the club and Darryl's attitude/position. The club always harp on about only wanting players that want to be at the club which I fully endorse, but I get the feeling that even Darryl doesn't hold true to this belief, especially going by his own actions/latest investments. I truly get the feeling that Darryl is cashing in on his assets before moving on. Not sure of the timeframe, but I'd guess he won't be here this time next year. This is his last throw of the dice/half hearted gamble with only limited chips on the table. They haven't invested what they said they would? How much did they say they would invest compared to the actual figure invested? I don't remember any discussion of figures so how could you know.
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Post by dubaiyellow on Sept 1, 2017 7:05:58 GMT
Personally think we have a stronger squad overall to last season. We needed a bit of experience and that has been added. Everyone would love a 20 goal a season man, I don't think we have one, but you would hope we have enough attacking threat from a lot of other players to get us the goals. So far we have scored 6 in 4 (league games) and 9 in 2 (cup). Statistically not a bad start at all in terms of goals scored for a club that has had to deal with so much disruption off the field, through no real fault of its own.
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Post by oufcluke27 on Sept 1, 2017 7:06:04 GMT
pretty pleased with the signings we made yesterday,and 1 sulky t*at gone for way over the odds,would of liked a striker in but now it's time for obika,Thomas,gino to kick on!!! bring on the fakes!!
UTFO COYY
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 1, 2017 7:08:56 GMT
Can we still bring in a free agent?
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Post by middlebartonyellow on Sept 1, 2017 7:15:35 GMT
Can we still bring in a free agent? I believe that you can.
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 1, 2017 7:23:52 GMT
Can we still bring in a free agent? I believe that you can. Thought so and there must be loads of quality experienced players who are unattached just now.
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Post by arthurturner on Sept 1, 2017 7:38:13 GMT
Did they really try for a striker? Did they really want to spend money on a big transfer? I don't think any of us really know the truth. What we do know is that Ashton's model will now start to flounder. The sale of the last two recognised saleable assets (RL & CN) would hurt the team so much that to sell them would be dangerous. That's only a problem if you don't replace the stock, which we did not. Eales needs to extend their contracts, just like Peterborough did with Maddison. Take some of the £4m and secure their future. If we do not, we will end up with Lundstram-esque situations next year and lose out significantly. This window was very short-term in its thinking. Assets sold, some good replacements in, but importantly, not ours. Good enough to mount a challenge? Maybe. Good enough to keep a bandwagon going that sees us barely react to selling a player for £3m, nowhere near. The truth is we now have a squad capable of getting promotion to the Championship. That is DE's priority and, I guess, is what Pep has been charged to try and achieve. We clearly still have money in the pot if things need tweaking in January. Should we achieve this we will need a wholesale revamp of the squad to stay there and I suspect DE may well then look to sell the club. Accordingly, the "Ashton model" is no longer the priority. That worked well when MAPP was manager but we are now in a different era and a different business plan is clearly evolving.
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Post by foley on Sept 1, 2017 7:40:44 GMT
I would say that on paper we have a better squad than last season. Defensively we have better players in my view (assuming Nelson is not out for long). In midfield Ruffels has come on significantly and the new players all seem to add something.
We will miss Johnson's pace, but we will have to play a slightly different way and Johnson hasn't really played much on the wing for some time. Maguire has been replaced by Payne. The big miss was always going to be McAleney who was going to be difficult to replace.
The key thing is how well Pep gets these players combining as a team and how the new players fit in (especially the foreign players). We have seen glimpses of fast moving quality football. I guess that we will know more in the next few weeks and after 12 games or so we will be able to make some real assessments.
With regard to the model changing this seems to have been explained? Clearly it is far harder to get in young premiership players (comments of £1M to borrow for a season). Personally I think this to be premiership greed and madness if it holds up the development of their players (oh well there is always the Checkertrade trophy!!)
The club have tried bringing in Xemi plus the young CB sent out on loan. So we still have Nelson, Ledson, Rothwell, Xemi, Eastwood plus (which is going to become more vital), Carroll, Stevens, Napa. Then there is Kelleher. Sure some need development but the whole point of the model is that there are top coaches who are good at developing younger players.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Sept 1, 2017 8:04:43 GMT
To somewhat echo the above, I am keeping one eye on the future. Our signings this summer have almost entirely been either loans who represent no equity to ourselves, and 30-something's who are worthless due to age. Two or three mid-late twenties signings (either for free or barely any money) but overall 30+ or loans. Which means beyond Ledson and Nelson, possibly Eastwood, we've largely depleted our previously growing stock of good young players with a high re-sale value. We've been told young PL players have priced themselves out of moves. Well, perhaps this is becoming more of a problem. Maybe so. But it was only 12 months ago that Joe Rothwell left Man United to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that Ryan Ledson left Everton to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed a brilliant and incredibly sought after player from a lower league club for 200k+ in Curtis Nelson. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Marvin Johnson for 400k+ from the SPL. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Kane Hemmings from the SPL for 250k+ etc. We were not just spending money, we were spending it wisely on good, talented young players from all levels of the British game. Players in their early to mid twenties with huge potential and who were willing to come to us, who we were willing to pay for, and whose wage demands we were able to satisfy on top of previous good earners like Maguire, Lundstram etc. So if it's changed, it's changed almost overnight. We've also brought in way more in sales and compo this summer than we did last summer, probably about double, had our best cup runs yet across the board before then and have lost a good batch of high earners. We've also stuck match ticket and season ticket prices through the roof. All in all, we should be at least as flush as last summer when we spent a million quid on fees and offered enough to make PL youngsters and shit hot prospects alike feel it was worth their while. Those are things that happened only a year ago. Yet our spending is seemingly way down, the type of player arriving is not built on future sale value to the extent it once was, and it all seems a bit... not right. It seems weird. I can't put my finger on it. Even this summer we've learned that we couldn't finalise a 350k deal for a SPL defender and then couldn't get another 400k odd deal over the line for the Motherwell lad. We were sealing those deals a year ago for similar fees and despite being total newcomers to the third tier. Now we are firmly considered a top 10 side in this league and have filled the coffers more than ever, but we can't land them? And we can't get PL youngsters to come? And we can't hook the best talent from the division below? We can't do ANY of those things we did literally one year ago? Before anyone accuses me of moaning, living in fantasy land, being a conspiracist etc - I'm not. I'm fairly happy with the way things stand and with how deadline day went. Not elated but fine, I'm alright with it. I've also stuck up for DE a few times because I do think some people are just grinding axes excessively. I'm pretty level and neutral on everything. All I'm saying is, when you look at this summer versus last, a lot of things don't quite seem to stack up. We've earned MUCH more but spent literally a fraction of what we did prior in fees, stuck our ticket prices sky high and although we MIGHT have managed to increase the wage bill, it doesn't quite seem in line with the bigger picture. And we now have our least amount of sellable assets in the last couple of years. They're nearly all gone when usually we've had five or six at any given time. So in a year when two or three of the older recruits move on or slow down further, and the last couple of assets are moved on because they only have a year left on their deals, where does that leave us? What's the plan beyond this season? Or FOR this season, actually? Because we haven't clearly gone all out for promotion, but nor have we kept our supply of youthful and potentially valuable prospects stocked as high as previous years. So it appears much more of a grey area than we've seen for some time now. I'm sure I'll take a pasting for even daring to ask some of these questions or express any slight doubts or concerns, but it is what it is. I've given legitimate reasons for why I feel a tad uneasy about things beyond this season and if that makes me a negative nelly then so be it. I'll still be at virtually every game home and away, and I'll still cheer every goal and every win gleefully. I like everybody here will always love and support the club. I'm just ever so slightly curious as to the bigger picture, that's all. One of the biggest changes in football in the last year is the amount of money that is sloshing around in England. We sold Johnson for nigh on £3 million which is frankly ridiculous money for someone that played less than a season in L1. This window has been about building experience in the team, something we lacked last season in games like Bolton and the Blades. MAPP alluded to looking elsewhere for value before he left and I think some of the signings show that mentality. I feel we will continue to operate in certain European markets over the English one because we can get a good margin on what we buy if we can develop the player. The ethos is there, but we've changed where and what we buy it seems. I would love to have a team for English players, but that is a remote possibility in football today the higher you go up in the pyramid. Our success with Lunny and Ledson will have been noticed.
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Post by ciaranjonlucas on Sept 1, 2017 8:09:39 GMT
What we do know is that Ashton's model will now start to flounder. The sale of the last two recognised saleable assets (RL & CN) would hurt the team so much that to sell them would be dangerous. That's only a problem if you don't replace the stock, which we did not.
Not true. I've heard that the vultures are circling after Dwight Tiendalli's performance at Stevenage Tuesday night.
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Post by Junior on Sept 1, 2017 8:38:17 GMT
For me it's the agents that are pushing the youngsters away from clubs like ourselves. They are so desperate for a pay day that for them it's better (financially) for their client to be at a pl club picking up a decent sum than playing at L1 level and earning a fraction of what he would at his parent club..
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Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 1, 2017 9:05:21 GMT
To somewhat echo the above, I am keeping one eye on the future. Our signings this summer have almost entirely been either loans who represent no equity to ourselves, and 30-something's who are worthless due to age. Two or three mid-late twenties signings (either for free or barely any money) but overall 30+ or loans. Which means beyond Ledson and Nelson, possibly Eastwood, we've largely depleted our previously growing stock of good young players with a high re-sale value. We've been told young PL players have priced themselves out of moves. Well, perhaps this is becoming more of a problem. Maybe so. But it was only 12 months ago that Joe Rothwell left Man United to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that Ryan Ledson left Everton to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed a brilliant and incredibly sought after player from a lower league club for 200k+ in Curtis Nelson. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Marvin Johnson for 400k+ from the SPL. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Kane Hemmings from the SPL for 250k+ etc. We were not just spending money, we were spending it wisely on good, talented young players from all levels of the British game. Players in their early to mid twenties with huge potential and who were willing to come to us, who we were willing to pay for, and whose wage demands we were able to satisfy on top of previous good earners like Maguire, Lundstram etc. So if it's changed, it's changed almost overnight. We've also brought in way more in sales and compo this summer than we did last summer, probably about double, had our best cup runs yet across the board before then and have lost a good batch of high earners. We've also stuck match ticket and season ticket prices through the roof. All in all, we should be at least as flush as last summer when we spent a million quid on fees and offered enough to make PL youngsters and shit hot prospects alike feel it was worth their while. Those are things that happened only a year ago. Yet our spending is seemingly way down, the type of player arriving is not built on future sale value to the extent it once was, and it all seems a bit... not right. It seems weird. I can't put my finger on it. Even this summer we've learned that we couldn't finalise a 350k deal for a SPL defender and then couldn't get another 400k odd deal over the line for the Motherwell lad. We were sealing those deals a year ago for similar fees and despite being total newcomers to the third tier. Now we are firmly considered a top 10 side in this league and have filled the coffers more than ever, but we can't land them? And we can't get PL youngsters to come? And we can't hook the best talent from the division below? We can't do ANY of those things we did literally one year ago? Before anyone accuses me of moaning, living in fantasy land, being a conspiracist etc - I'm not. I'm fairly happy with the way things stand and with how deadline day went. Not elated but fine, I'm alright with it. I've also stuck up for DE a few times because I do think some people are just grinding axes excessively. I'm pretty level and neutral on everything. All I'm saying is, when you look at this summer versus last, a lot of things don't quite seem to stack up. We've earned MUCH more but spent literally a fraction of what we did prior in fees, stuck our ticket prices sky high and although we MIGHT have managed to increase the wage bill, it doesn't quite seem in line with the bigger picture. And we now have our least amount of sellable assets in the last couple of years. They're nearly all gone when usually we've had five or six at any given time. So in a year when two or three of the older recruits move on or slow down further, and the last couple of assets are moved on because they only have a year left on their deals, where does that leave us? What's the plan beyond this season? Or FOR this season, actually? Because we haven't clearly gone all out for promotion, but nor have we kept our supply of youthful and potentially valuable prospects stocked as high as previous years. So it appears much more of a grey area than we've seen for some time now. I'm sure I'll take a pasting for even daring to ask some of these questions or express any slight doubts or concerns, but it is what it is. I've given legitimate reasons for why I feel a tad uneasy about things beyond this season and if that makes me a negative nelly then so be it. I'll still be at virtually every game home and away, and I'll still cheer every goal and every win gleefully. I like everybody here will always love and support the club. I'm just ever so slightly curious as to the bigger picture, that's all. One of the biggest changes in football in the last year is the amount of money that is sloshing around in England. We sold Johnson for nigh on £3 million which is frankly ridiculous money for someone that played less than a season in L1. This window has been about building experience in the team, something we lacked last season in games like Bolton and the Blades. MAPP alluded to looking elsewhere for value before he left and I think some of the signings show that mentality. I feel we will continue to operate in certain European markets over the English one because we can get a good margin on what we buy if we can develop the player. The ethos is there, but we've changed where and what we buy it seems. I would love to have a team for English players, but that is a remote possibility in football today the higher you go up in the pyramid. Our success with Lunny and Ledson will have been noticed. Sensible stuff, lads but may I mention 2 thoughts: The notion that we were the only club that had the 'Appleton' model in play simply can't (intuitively) be right - maybe we did it better than the rest....... More importantly, this avowed business model of develop/sell is a conveyor - if you don't feed it nothing will come out in sales. We may be OK at xmas and in the summer, but after that?
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Post by m on Sept 1, 2017 9:28:14 GMT
One of the biggest changes in football in the last year is the amount of money that is sloshing around in England. We sold Johnson for nigh on £3 million which is frankly ridiculous money for someone that played less than a season in L1. This window has been about building experience in the team, something we lacked last season in games like Bolton and the Blades. MAPP alluded to looking elsewhere for value before he left and I think some of the signings show that mentality. I feel we will continue to operate in certain European markets over the English one because we can get a good margin on what we buy if we can develop the player. The ethos is there, but we've changed where and what we buy it seems. I would love to have a team for English players, but that is a remote possibility in football today the higher you go up in the pyramid. Our success with Lunny and Ledson will have been noticed. Sensible stuff, lads but may I mention 2 thoughts: The notion that we were the only club that had the 'Appleton' model in play simply can't (intuitively) be right - maybe we did it better than the rest....... More importantly, this avowed business model of develop/sell is a conveyor - if you don't feed it nothing will come out in sales. We may be OK at xmas and in the summer, but after that? Amen to that first thought. The model was surely the dream for 75% of league clubs, I'm sure. What club ever said "We intend to sign journeymen only"?
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Post by pottersrightboot on Sept 1, 2017 9:28:25 GMT
Delighted that the bad apple left the club for decent money yesterday.
Think we are much stronger at the back now; don't agree that we are running out of saleable assets. Carroll (especially) and Napa look promising. Maybe Xemi will kick on. Not sure on the Rothwell and Hall contract position - but of course they are still young.
The new signings look excellent to me - Mousinho was a rock for Burton, Mowatt has talent. A year loan is acceptable, we haven't got the dosh to buy players like him outright.
It's clear to me that we are going to have a crack at promotion this season. Eales knows the club will be worth a lot more with a Championship spot and is investing - to an extent. He's hardly mortgaging the club's future is he - for which we should all be thankful.
The elephant in the room as per is the stadium. Reckon Eales is going to leave that problem/opportunity to a new owner now.
Let's enjoy the ride - it's a tough league but the team are scoring goals and Pep is settling in well.
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Post by osleroad on Sept 1, 2017 9:41:22 GMT
People are forgetting as intimated by Pep yesterday that there are short and long term plans and next season will be planned for wherever we are..inc. academy players and developers such as Kelleher or Xemi
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Post by yellowbow on Sept 1, 2017 9:58:25 GMT
To somewhat echo the above, I am keeping one eye on the future. Our signings this summer have almost entirely been either loans who represent no equity to ourselves, and 30-something's who are worthless due to age. Two or three mid-late twenties signings (either for free or barely any money) but overall 30+ or loans. Which means beyond Ledson and Nelson, possibly Eastwood, we've largely depleted our previously growing stock of good young players with a high re-sale value. We've been told young PL players have priced themselves out of moves. Well, perhaps this is becoming more of a problem. Maybe so. But it was only 12 months ago that Joe Rothwell left Man United to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that Ryan Ledson left Everton to sign for us. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed a brilliant and incredibly sought after player from a lower league club for 200k+ in Curtis Nelson. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Marvin Johnson for 400k+ from the SPL. And it was only 12 months ago that we signed Kane Hemmings from the SPL for 250k+ etc. We were not just spending money, we were spending it wisely on good, talented young players from all levels of the British game. Players in their early to mid twenties with huge potential and who were willing to come to us, who we were willing to pay for, and whose wage demands we were able to satisfy on top of previous good earners like Maguire, Lundstram etc. So if it's changed, it's changed almost overnight. We've also brought in way more in sales and compo this summer than we did last summer, probably about double, had our best cup runs yet across the board before then and have lost a good batch of high earners. We've also stuck match ticket and season ticket prices through the roof. All in all, we should be at least as flush as last summer when we spent a million quid on fees and offered enough to make PL youngsters and shit hot prospects alike feel it was worth their while. Those are things that happened only a year ago. Yet our spending is seemingly way down, the type of player arriving is not built on future sale value to the extent it once was, and it all seems a bit... not right. It seems weird. I can't put my finger on it. Even this summer we've learned that we couldn't finalise a 350k deal for a SPL defender and then couldn't get another 400k odd deal over the line for the Motherwell lad. We were sealing those deals a year ago for similar fees and despite being total newcomers to the third tier. Now we are firmly considered a top 10 side in this league and have filled the coffers more than ever, but we can't land them? And we can't get PL youngsters to come? And we can't hook the best talent from the division below? We can't do ANY of those things we did literally one year ago? Before anyone accuses me of moaning, living in fantasy land, being a conspiracist etc - I'm not. I'm fairly happy with the way things stand and with how deadline day went. Not elated but fine, I'm alright with it. I've also stuck up for DE a few times because I do think some people are just grinding axes excessively. I'm pretty level and neutral on everything. All I'm saying is, when you look at this summer versus last, a lot of things don't quite seem to stack up. We've earned MUCH more but spent literally a fraction of what we did prior in fees, stuck our ticket prices sky high and although we MIGHT have managed to increase the wage bill, it doesn't quite seem in line with the bigger picture. And we now have our least amount of sellable assets in the last couple of years. They're nearly all gone when usually we've had five or six at any given time. So in a year when two or three of the older recruits move on or slow down further, and the last couple of assets are moved on because they only have a year left on their deals, where does that leave us? What's the plan beyond this season? Or FOR this season, actually? Because we haven't clearly gone all out for promotion, but nor have we kept our supply of youthful and potentially valuable prospects stocked as high as previous years. So it appears much more of a grey area than we've seen for some time now. I'm sure I'll take a pasting for even daring to ask some of these questions or express any slight doubts or concerns, but it is what it is. I've given legitimate reasons for why I feel a tad uneasy about things beyond this season and if that makes me a negative nelly then so be it. I'll still be at virtually every game home and away, and I'll still cheer every goal and every win gleefully. I like everybody here will always love and support the club. I'm just ever so slightly curious as to the bigger picture, that's all. Great post. Concerns are understandable, only time will tell if the club will be vindicated with this summers dealings. We'll all continue to support through thick or thin regardless.
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Post by Eaststandboy on Sept 1, 2017 21:38:48 GMT
That's Deadline day well and truly done 😀
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