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Post by Paul Cannell on Aug 24, 2017 10:31:00 GMT
Needs to move from Photobucket. I'd he PMs me I can send a link that I used to change my avatar
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Post by essexyellows on Aug 24, 2017 10:32:22 GMT
The "app" is an abomination of civil liberties...are all those on it convicted in a court? If not they would have a serious data protection case against the Club. I feel there maybe several Data Protection Act requests coming on. ico.org.uk/for-the-public/personal-information/That aside, for those who weren`t there, where is the "proposed Ultra`s area" ? There is no way I`m moving except in a wooden box.
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Post by Denissmithswig on Aug 24, 2017 10:53:03 GMT
I think clarity needs to be made of who is classed as high risk. Is it people that have been in trouble before or it is the clubs opinion that the way an individual behaves puts them in a high risk bracket.
As for having people's photo's of high risk supporters. This isn't a new thing in football as police for years have a data base of fans photo's of potential trouble makers. It is just the fact this doesn't seem to be a police project.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Aug 24, 2017 11:00:55 GMT
I would hope the minimum OxVoz would demand is that anyone on the list is informed why, what, and has a right of reply.
It sounds f*cking shite to me.
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Post by essexyellows on Aug 24, 2017 11:01:27 GMT
I think clarity needs to be made of who is classed as high risk. Is it people that have been in trouble before or it is the clubs opinion that the way an individual behaves puts them in a high risk bracket. As for having people's photo's of high risk supporters. This isn't a new thing in football as police for years have a data base of fans photo's of potential trouble makers. It is just the fact this doesn't seem to be a police project. I would have no issue with the correct authority having my details and using it as they see fit, live by the sword & all that. When its "Mr Mixter Inc" holding it for no apparent reason other than "they think they can" it becomes completely different gravy.
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Post by oufcgav on Aug 24, 2017 11:14:18 GMT
There is probably something in ground regulations that you accept on buying a ticket/entering the ground that says you accept that you will be monitored by CCTV and that the footage will be stored and maybe be used for safety/security/law related purposes. Linking that to a database that identifies your name/'offenses' is potentially an issue, especially if you are making that data accessible to 100+ people. Euro GDPR regulations state for private organisations explicit valid consent must be given for the data to be collected and the purpose it is to be used for (and that includes names/photos).
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Post by oufcgav on Aug 24, 2017 11:18:18 GMT
I would hope the minimum OxVoz would demand is that anyone on the list is informed why, what, and has a right of reply. It sounds f*cking shite to me. If it comes to it, every individual has a right to request disclosure of what personal information is being held on them (including a photo) and for what purpose. If they are not providing satisfactory group response we can just have a few hundred/thousand people submitting individual requests in their own name.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 24, 2017 11:32:15 GMT
What I don't get is that a risk supporter is classified as ( a person known or not know ). If they are not known ? How the f*ck are they on a risk list ?
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Post by rickyotto on Aug 24, 2017 11:46:01 GMT
There is probably something in ground regulations that you accept on buying a ticket/entering the ground that says you accept that you will be monitored by CCTV and that the footage will be stored and maybe be used for safety/security/law related purposes. Linking that to a database that identifies your name/'offenses' is potentially an issue, especially if you are making that data accessible to 100+ people. Euro GDPR regulations state for private organisations explicit valid consent must be given for the data to be collected and the purpose it is to be used for (and that includes names/photos). Unless they inform you pre purchase that these are the conditions of sale I think they're probably on dangerous territory.
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Post by Kairdiff Exile on Aug 24, 2017 12:06:25 GMT
Crucially, the difference between OUFC operating this database and Thames Valley Police doing so is that OUFC as a private entity aren't subject to the same level of data protection requirements as a public body. If TVP film/photograph you, you are able to request a copy of the photo/footage (something I've done in the past and found them unable to fulfil their legal requirements within the expected timescales, as it happens); you can also write to them and demand to be told whether you are on any such database. If I'm correct, this app would not be subject to the same level of scrutiny which is one very good reason to be suspicious of it!
I'll be making contact with the Football Supporters Federation (if you're not a member, you should be) to ask about the legality of what's being suggested.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 24, 2017 12:24:31 GMT
Seems as though a comprehensive range of topics were discussed, which must make the meeting worthwhile. Well done OxVox, Mr Mixter and the club for coming together. I can't really complain as I wasn't there myself, but that was a very low fan turn out! Seemingly hot topics being discussed, in Oxford, yet only 13 supporters present, plus OxVox committee members. I wonder how Mr Mixter (and OUFC) felt about that. Plenty of disquiet on the forum, but not many bothered enough to make the meeting. The various 'gates' seem to have been sorted out, and any sensible fan would have to support a hard approach to, for instance, unsuitable people gaining access to family areas and behaving badly. No-one wants a totally sanitised football environment, but there has to be limits. An increasing number of OUFC's own, well-trained stewards sounds good, as does at least considering the possibility of an Ultras section in the East Stand. Only three negatives for me: 1. Mr Mixter and his family should not be receiving threats, but perhaps he should be able to spot satire that was, in fact, supportive of him; 2. What is the Rapid Expansion System crowd management system? Apparently it can be lent out to other clubs when not in use. What on earth is it? OxVox will no doubt seek clarity; 3. OxTales can f*ck right off. The idea off stewards accessing an App that shows 'risk supporters' has no place at OUFC. People rightly objected to TVP filming crowds and comparing footage to books of mug shots. OUFC shouldn't be doing the same. So many questions: who goes on the list and why? When do they come off the list? What actions will stewards take if they identify someone via the App? What rights of appeal are there, instantly and after the event? As stated in the meeting notes, OxVox need to investigate this much, much further. Having not read the notes, I wasn't surprised at the low turnout. It somewhat fits with the demographic and a day after a main forum, was always going to be the day after the Lord Mayor's parade. 1. I believe other threats were made not on here and on social media instead (and from what I recall, were unpleasant). So while the satire thread was obvious to most regulars, it could be seen otherwise. 3. It's an awkward one for me. We have some regulars (and big game fans) that always tread a fine line at games, so I can see why the steward team would want to know if they are a bit testy before talking to them. It's more important if you rely on agency staff who have no history or relationship with fans, or know who will give bovver. However, I'd hope the club pushes harder to get more club stewards so the tech side can take a step back. It does feel off to have such a system without the punters knowing about it and retention of the data is a concern - some fans could have a moment and could be left on the list long term. How long are fans left on the list? I suppose abuse of stewards in the past season or two has played a small part in the wider issue that is OxTales. And I am the only one that remembers the OxTales website?
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 24, 2017 12:28:24 GMT
I think they have taken the idea from this
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 24, 2017 12:35:14 GMT
They are quackers for doing that
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Post by oufcgav on Aug 24, 2017 12:49:04 GMT
Crucially, the difference between OUFC operating this database and Thames Valley Police doing so is that OUFC as a private entity aren't subject to the same level of data protection requirements as a public body. If TVP film/photograph you, you are able to request a copy of the photo/footage (something I've done in the past and found them unable to fulfil their legal requirements within the expected timescales, as it happens); you can also write to them and demand to be told whether you are on any such database. If I'm correct, this app would not be subject to the same level of scrutiny which is one very good reason to be suspicious of it! I'll be making contact with the Football Supporters Federation (if you're not a member, you should be) to ask about the legality of what's being suggested. The European GDPR which includes us is in place, with enforcement from next May that will include private companies too.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 24, 2017 12:50:53 GMT
And some pretty extraordinarily large fines for non-compliance.
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Post by Kairdiff Exile on Aug 24, 2017 12:52:00 GMT
That's good to know, OUFCGav, many thanks. That being the case, I sincerely hope they are up-front with fans both before and after the launch of the app so that we're aware of it and understand what are rights are in relation to our own data. I'd strongly encourage all of us to make Subject Access Requests if/when the time comes so that they realise the responsibilities they will have to carry if they are to go ahead with such a scheme!
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Post by Mark on Aug 24, 2017 12:59:13 GMT
I was hoping someone would pop up with the data protection aspects. I know snake would have been all over the FOI requests.
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Post by essexyellows on Aug 24, 2017 14:19:19 GMT
In case it was missed..............
Where was/is the proposed "Ultra" area?
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 24, 2017 14:41:35 GMT
Block 13 east stand
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Post by essexyellows on Aug 24, 2017 15:54:57 GMT
OK I`ll take the bait... East Stand is 16 - 21 (left to right looking at the pitch).... North then goes 22-29. Block 13 is South Stand Upper Premium..............
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 24, 2017 16:16:51 GMT
OK I`ll take the bait... East Stand is 16 - 21 (left to right looking at the pitch).... North then goes 22-29. Block 13 is South Stand Upper Premium.............. f*ck knows then
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Post by plonker on Aug 24, 2017 17:02:19 GMT
OK I`ll take the bait... East Stand is 16 - 21 (left to right looking at the pitch).... North then goes 22-29. Block 13 is South Stand Upper Premium.............. When it was previously mentioned on here by a member of the group, he said it was block 21 that was being considered because it has the lowest number of season ticket holders and therefore the fewest people who would be inconvenienced by the proposed section. Although that may have changed, Ian is obviously mistaken, it's not block 13.
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Post by ladylangton on Aug 24, 2017 19:20:35 GMT
On the data protection front, data controllers are permitted to process data for their own legitimate purposes: consent isn't always required, and consent can of course be withdrawn.
The interesting question would be to what extent using this app would be proportionate to furthering the legitimate interests of the data controller. Data also has to be processed transparently : so the use of the app would need to be clearly spelled out.
Lots of grey areas I think.
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Post by Maurice Earp on Aug 24, 2017 20:35:17 GMT
Just read it and from some of the comments it's clear some of our supporters need to take a long hard look at themselves! Especially the people who feel the need to use smoke/bomb/flares Join OxVox www.oxvox.org.uk/join-oxvox/
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Post by sarge on Aug 24, 2017 21:40:08 GMT
Im looking forward to participating on this thread..... though until my copy of the minutes of the meeting arrive (they havent as yet!), I'll be observing Though I did attend the meeting
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Post by Junior on Aug 24, 2017 21:40:13 GMT
Club are welcoming fans to mail Ian Mixter direct.
Got this earlier.
please email our Safety Officer Ian Mixter directly for further information on this: imixter@oufc.co.uk. Thanks
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Post by Denissmithswig on Aug 24, 2017 21:54:31 GMT
Would be good to get a response from the ultras about the outcome of this meeting and why they didn't feel the need to attend.
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Post by rickyotto on Aug 25, 2017 9:43:04 GMT
I have a feeling that flag gate may have put a significant dent in the ultras desire to keep doing what they do. Just guessing but activity and numbers seem to be down
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Post by Si Bradbury on Aug 25, 2017 10:34:18 GMT
SORRY GUYS, I may have mis-typed that bit. The potential area for an Ultras section is indeed, BLOCK 21 and NOT 13.
Simon
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Post by essexyellows on Aug 25, 2017 11:37:18 GMT
I think the South stand Premium would be the perfect locations myself. That aside I have prepared my Data Protection Act letter for the nice Mr Mixter. I feel he maybe a bit "busy" & stressed sooner than expected. The Data Protection Act 1998 requires every organisation that processes personal information to register with the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO), unless they are exempt. Failure to do so is a criminal offence.Mixter-Associates Ltd are not showing on the register using their business postcode. Not a good start.........................................
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