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Post by nottsyellow on May 27, 2017 9:35:36 GMT
Under the Satori thread, Manorlounger posted some Freedom of Information on details of the sale of the land at Minchery Farm to FK. Under "Findings of Fact", page 4 section 18 it states "The sale of this land included the condition that Firoka complete construction of the football stadium ...." What is the legal definition of "complete" ?
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Post by oufcyellows on May 27, 2017 10:04:50 GMT
I have built a stadium that comes complete with a nice unobstructed view of all my other businesses
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Post by Colin B on May 27, 2017 10:07:48 GMT
Back in the day, when kassam was trying to put everything together to "finish" the stadium, he went to court on this very issue.
At the time there were covenants (or at least some form of legal/planning restraints) preventing commencement of the cinema and leisure development until the stadium was complete. He went to court on the basis that a three sided stadium constituted a "finished" stadium and he won.
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Post by Barts on May 27, 2017 12:03:09 GMT
Back in the day, when kassam was trying to put everything together to "finish" the stadium, he went to court on this very issue. At the time there were covenants (or at least some form of legal/planning restraints) preventing commencement of the cinema and leisure development until the stadium was complete. He went to court on the basis that a three sided stadium constituted a "finished" stadium and he won. I'm guessing he won on the basis that when he came in they had only started to construct 3 sides so theoretically he had finished it. If even one brick had been laid on the 4th stand he would've had to have built it.
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Post by Colin B on May 27, 2017 14:30:04 GMT
Back in the day, when kassam was trying to put everything together to "finish" the stadium, he went to court on this very issue. At the time there were covenants (or at least some form of legal/planning restraints) preventing commencement of the cinema and leisure development until the stadium was complete. He went to court on the basis that a three sided stadium constituted a "finished" stadium and he won. I'm guessing he won on the basis that when he came in they had only started to construct 3 sides so theoretically he had finished it. If even one brick had been laid on the 4th stand he would've had to have built it. Pretty much that. It's a shame the steelwork wasn't up at the West End before the builders downed tools, or it may have been a different outcome and we wouldn't have been the butt of so many other fans' unfunny and unoriginal jokes over the last sixteen years.
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Post by oufcyellows on May 27, 2017 14:31:07 GMT
Is it true that the footings are in place ?
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Post by Colin B on May 27, 2017 15:02:12 GMT
Is it true that the footings are in place ? That's always been the rumour. Not sure they'd be any use now anyway.
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Post by oufcyellows on May 27, 2017 15:09:07 GMT
Probably not no. And would limit u to the same design as was planned, but u would think having laid them would have counted as work starting on that end.
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Post by Colin B on May 27, 2017 15:55:59 GMT
Probably not no. And would limit u to the same design as was planned, but u would think having laid them would have counted as work starting on that end. I don't think it was anything to do with whether work had started on that end, it was more to do with the fact that the steelwork (and some of the preformed concrete terracing) had been erected for the other three sides, so these had to be completed. If, for instance, only two of them were completed, the third would have been a rusting skeletal hulk next to the pitch. Unfortunately, if they exist, footings are easy to cover over, so there's no visible eyesore to look at, at the West End.
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Post by chippsy on May 27, 2017 16:06:18 GMT
Definition of a stadium according to the Cambridge English Dictionary is a CLOSED area of land with SEATS around the sides.
Not quite sure the fence fits that definition, suggesting that the stadium is not finished.
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Post by nottsyellow on May 27, 2017 16:24:54 GMT
I'm guessing he won on the basis that when he came in they had only started to construct 3 sides so theoretically he had finished it. If even one brick had been laid on the 4th stand he would've had to have built it. Pretty much that. It's a shame the steelwork wasn't up at the West End before the builders downed tools, or it may have been a different outcome and we wouldn't have been the butt of so many other fans' unfunny and unoriginal jokes over the last sixteen years. Ah! .. When you look at the words it says "complete construction" ie so perhaps, yes, that means finish the construction that was in place rather than have a complete stadium. This is how and why lawyers earn plenty of money - clumsy wording in agreements!
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Post by chippsy on May 27, 2017 17:41:39 GMT
Pretty much that. It's a shame the steelwork wasn't up at the West End before the builders downed tools, or it may have been a different outcome and we wouldn't have been the butt of so many other fans' unfunny and unoriginal jokes over the last sixteen years. Ah! .. When you look at the words it says "complete construction" ie so perhaps, yes, that means finish the construction that was in place rather than have a complete stadium. This is how and why lawyers earn plenty of money - clumsy wording in agreements! Surely "to complete construction" is to finish the job. I.e according to the agreed plans which had been drawn up and for which planning permission had been received. Seems black and white to me... Which is probably why I am not a lawyer.
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Post by daveoufc on May 27, 2017 18:45:44 GMT
Is it true that the footings are in place ? That's always been the rumour. Not sure they'd be any use now anyway. I would of thought if the footings are in place then they would still be fine. Concrete usually harderns over 10yrs and if they have been backfilled and tarmaced over then aprox 30% of the cost of the west stand could already of been completed.
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Post by makv on May 27, 2017 22:56:52 GMT
or it may have been a different outcome and we wouldn't have been the butt of so many other fans' unfunny and unoriginal jokes over the last sixteen years. Oh come on. Some are actually quite funny. Just like the "our fence is older than your club" song when MK came.
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Post by Colin B on May 28, 2017 8:55:29 GMT
or it may have been a different outcome and we wouldn't have been the butt of so many other fans' unfunny and unoriginal jokes over the last sixteen years. Oh come on. Some are actually quite funny. Just like the "our fence is older than your club" song when MK came. We obviously have a VERY different sense of humour then.
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Post by bashamwonderland on May 28, 2017 14:37:50 GMT
If the document on which that condition is made is worth its salt, it will include a definition of "complete" explicitly or by reference to a supplementary agreement.
If "complete" is not defined, I would love to talk to the solicitor who drafted it. Because he would either be the smartest or stupidest lawyer in the game.
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Post by nottsyellow on May 28, 2017 16:57:34 GMT
Whilst some judge has obviously decided a 3 sided thingy is a complete stadium, but then following on from this further, surely one of the three stands,the East Stand is not actually complete. There are 4 rows of concrete at the back waiting for seats to be affixed and a "shell" inside the structure waiting for bar/supporters area/restaurant to be built (not sure exactly what was meant to be inside the east Stand but there was meant to be something, leading out to the four rows at the back).
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Post by neville60 on May 30, 2017 2:10:23 GMT
[quote autho r=" nottsyellow" source="/post/691271/thread" timestamp="1495990654"]Whilst some judge has obviously decided a 3 sided thingy is a complete stadium, but then following on from this further, surely one of the three stands,the East Stand is not actually complete. There are 4 rows of concrete at the back waiting for seats to be affixed and a "shell" inside the structure waiting for bar/supporters area/restaurant to be built (not sure exactly what was meant to be inside the east Stand but there was meant to be something, leading out to the four rows at the back). [/quote] Does anyone have access to the original plans?
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Post by oslernorth on Jun 4, 2017 8:07:48 GMT
Whilst some judge has obviously decided a 3 sided thingy is a complete stadium, but then following on from this further, surely one of the three stands,the East Stand is not actually complete. There are 4 rows of concrete at the back waiting for seats to be affixed and a "shell" inside the structure waiting for bar/supporters area/restaurant to be built (not sure exactly what was meant to be inside the east Stand but there was meant to be something, leading out to the four rows at the back). Were the original plans ever published anywhere back in the 90's? It would be interesting to see what the stadium should have looked like, and where else corners have been cut
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mermaid
Hocine bibo aut in eum digitos insero?
Posts: 99
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Post by mermaid on Jun 4, 2017 12:57:34 GMT
Original plans had links at either end of the north stand but strangely not at either end of the south stand. Sorry but the image I have is too big to post.
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Post by neville60 on Jun 5, 2017 1:38:48 GMT
Original plans had links at either end of the north stand but strangely not at either end of the south stand. Sorry but the image I have is too big to post. Have Oxvox seen them?
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Post by oslernorth on Jun 5, 2017 19:44:05 GMT
Original plans had links at either end of the north stand but strangely not at either end of the south stand. Sorry but the image I have is too big to post. That's interesting, so once inside you could have effectively walked around 3 sides of the ground. Maybe there was a plan to put away fans somewhere in the south stand so left it seperated
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Post by Bue Guado on Jun 6, 2017 10:24:38 GMT
Original plans had links at either end of the north stand but strangely not at either end of the south stand. Sorry but the image I have is too big to post. If you take a screenshot of the image you can reduce file size while retaining the resolution as it appears on your screen, which should allow you to share it. Appreciate it if you could, would be very keen to see it!
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Post by grover on Jun 6, 2017 14:29:35 GMT
Whilst some judge has obviously decided a 3 sided thingy is a complete stadium, but then following on from this further, surely one of the three stands,the East Stand is not actually complete. There are 4 rows of concrete at the back waiting for seats to be affixed and a "shell" inside the structure waiting for bar/supporters area/restaurant to be built (not sure exactly what was meant to be inside the east Stand but there was meant to be something, leading out to the four rows at the back). Were the original plans ever published anywhere back in the 90's? It would be interesting to see what the stadium should have looked like, and where else corners have been cut Attached are scans from the pre-Kassam brochure which was given out during early stages of building. I'm pretty sure I saw the footings in place for the West Stand when I went round. Somewhere I think I may have photos of them.
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Post by Yellow River on Jun 6, 2017 19:03:25 GMT
Were the original plans ever published anywhere back in the 90's? It would be interesting to see what the stadium should have looked like, and where else corners have been cut Attached are scans from the pre-Kassam brochure which was given out during early stages of building. I'm pretty sure I saw the footings in place for the West Stand when I went round. Somewhere I think I may have photos of them. Interesting thanks for posting. Somewhere in the loft I have the brochure/ proposals for a pre Grenoble Rd stadium, from memory for a stadium to be built in Botley?? Must look it out.
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Post by oslernorth on Jun 6, 2017 20:52:11 GMT
Thanks grover. Very interesting
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 6, 2017 21:05:09 GMT
Is that Mickey Mouse on the top of the West Stand?
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Post by headingtonutd on Jun 6, 2017 21:12:52 GMT
Is that Mickey Mouse on the top of the West Stand? Good spot. Mind you the whole building ended up a little Micky Mouse, and we got Donald Ducked.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 8, 2017 7:50:24 GMT
Under "Findings of Fact", page 4 section 18 it states "The sale of this land included the condition that Firoka complete construction of the football stadium ...." What is the legal definition of "complete" ? Point a. It was bought from the council. If the document on which that condition is made is worth its salt, it will include a definition of "complete" explicitly or by reference to a supplementary agreement. If "complete" is not defined, I would love to talk to the solicitor who drafted it. Because he would either be the smartest or stupidest lawyer in the game. Correct. May I expand? Point b. (stupidest) Or the solicitor was not consulted or over-ruled: Nick Merry* Point c. (smartest) Sort of. Given the council's history of inexplicably giving Kassam the world on a plate (Priory) and failure to enforce restrictions it may not be stuidity.
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Post by neville60 on Jun 12, 2017 8:27:11 GMT
Sorry this is late, but thank you Grover for posting.
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