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Post by ag on Jan 28, 2017 14:05:07 GMT
The Board were put in the position of having to respond to OxVox' leak -which is why I consider selective leaking by OxVox is counterproductive and extremely stupid. The bottom line is both sides have leaked information, yet it appears only OxVox are 'extremely stupid'. The board didn't have to respond at all. They are very different kinds of institution- the board are a commercial institution, and one of the parties involved in the dispute. OxVox are supposed to be a democratic institution representing the interests of their members the club and Oxford United fans more generally. If you can't see why it's inappropriate for OxVox to selectively leak against the board and get invoked in a slanging match then I'm sorry for you - and I certainly wouldn't want you negotiating with Firoz Kassam.
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Post by myles on Jan 28, 2017 14:06:17 GMT
The Board were put in the position of having to respond to OxVox' leak -which is why I consider selective leaking by OxVox is counterproductive and extremely stupid. Or to put it another way, the board had to respond to being caught out trying to misrepresent the facts.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 28, 2017 14:08:03 GMT
The bottom line is both sides have leaked information, yet it appears only OxVox are 'extremely stupid'. The board didn't have to respond at all. They are very different kinds of institution- the board are a commercial institution, and one of the parties involved in the dispute. OxVox are supposed to be a democratic institution representing the interests of their members the club and Oxford United fans more generally. If you can't see why it's inappropriate for OxVox to selectively leak against the board and get invoked in a slanging match then I'm sorry for you - and I certainly wouldn't want you negotiating with Firoz Kassam. Well fortunately I'm not negotiating with Kassam, so don't worry yourself unduly. As for feeling sorry for me, how very condescending.
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Post by ag on Jan 28, 2017 14:15:16 GMT
The Board were put in the position of having to respond to OxVox' leak -which is why I consider selective leaking by OxVox is counterproductive and extremely stupid. Or to put it another way, the board had to respond to being caught out trying to misrepresent the facts. We do know that Firoz Kassam refused to allow Oxford United a temporary 4th stand which was granted planning permission last year- on undeclared grounds. As we don't know the details of the offer for the Newcastle game we cannot whether it was made in good faith, though I do t think OxVox should even be conveying the offer. If it's a serious offer why can't it be negotiated between football club and Kassam instead of Oxvox behaving like kasssan's go between?
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 28, 2017 14:20:39 GMT
Or to put it another way, the board had to respond to being caught out trying to misrepresent the facts. We do know that Firoz Kassam refused to allow Oxford United a temporary 4th stand which was granted planning permission last year- on undeclared grounds. As we don't know the details of the offer for the Newcastle game we cannot whether it was made in good faith, though I do t think OxVox should even be conveying the offer. If it's a serious offer why can't it be negotiated between football club and Kassam instead of Oxvox behaving like kasssan's go between? Some of the major facts of this whole affair seem to be alluding you. The reason OxVox are involved with Kassam over the stadium is because Kassam will not deal with OUFC. OxVox are not acting as 'go betweens' - as you again very condescendingly believe - they are acting as facilitators. Without them there would be no contact with Kassam over the stadium or anything else.
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Post by ag on Jan 28, 2017 14:27:08 GMT
We do know that Firoz Kassam refused to allow Oxford United a temporary 4th stand which was granted planning permission last year- on undeclared grounds. As we don't know the details of the offer for the Newcastle game we cannot whether it was made in good faith, though I do t think OxVox should even be conveying the offer. If it's a serious offer why can't it be negotiated between football club and Kassam instead of Oxvox behaving like kasssan's go between? Some of the major facts of this whole affair seem to be alluding you. The reason OxVox are involved with Kassam over the stadium is because Kassam will not deal with OUFC. OxVox are not acting as 'go betweens' - as you again very condescendingly believe - they are acting as facilitators. Without them there would be no contact with Kassam over the stadium or anything else. On the issue of the 4th stand (which they chose to leak) they were acting as go-betweens. As landlord & tenant the club and the landlord are in a contractual relationship and are or should be in regular contact l.
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Post by myles on Jan 28, 2017 14:28:30 GMT
Or to put it another way, the board had to respond to being caught out trying to misrepresent the facts. We do know that Firoz Kassam refused to allow Oxford United a temporary 4th stand which was granted planning permission last year- on undeclared grounds. As we don't know the details of the offer for the Newcastle game we cannot whether it was made in good faith, though I do t think OxVox should even be conveying the offer. If it's a serious offer why can't it be negotiated between football club and Kassam instead of Oxvox behaving like kasssan's go between? You're missing the point. In the clubs OxMail column yesterday, they used the 4th stand issue as a stick to beat Kassam with. There was absolutely no mention of the latest offer. If it wasn't possible for "operational reasons", why did they not say so? That to me looks like a deliberate attempt to paint Kassam in the worst possible light. Yet, OxVox are the ones in the wrong here?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 28, 2017 14:29:55 GMT
The bottom line is both sides have leaked information, yet it appears only OxVox are 'extremely stupid'. The board didn't have to respond at all. They are very different kinds of institution- the board are a commercial institution, and one of the parties involved in the dispute. OxVox are supposed to be a democratic institution representing the interests of their members the club and Oxford United fans more generally. If you can't see why it's inappropriate for OxVox to selectively leak against the board and get invoked in a slanging match then I'm sorry for you - and I certainly wouldn't want you negotiating with Firoz Kassam. That why it was released to members they represent not the f*cking press
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Post by ag on Jan 28, 2017 14:32:07 GMT
We do know that Firoz Kassam refused to allow Oxford United a temporary 4th stand which was granted planning permission last year- on undeclared grounds. As we don't know the details of the offer for the Newcastle game we cannot whether it was made in good faith, though I do t think OxVox should even be conveying the offer. If it's a serious offer why can't it be negotiated between football club and Kassam instead of Oxvox behaving like kasssan's go between? You're missing the point. In the clubs OxMail column yesterday, they used the 4th stand issue as a stick to beat Kassam with. There was absolutely no mention of the latest offer. If it wasn't possible for "operational reasons", why did they not say so? That to me looks like a deliberate attempt to paint Kassam in the worst possible light. Yet, OxVox are the ones in the wrong here? I think you're missing the point. OxVox have no business selectively leaking information from their negotiations.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 28, 2017 14:32:33 GMT
Some of the major facts of this whole affair seem to be alluding you. The reason OxVox are involved with Kassam over the stadium is because Kassam will not deal with OUFC. OxVox are not acting as 'go betweens' - as you again very condescendingly believe - they are acting as facilitators. Without them there would be no contact with Kassam over the stadium or anything else. On the issue of the 4th stand (which they chose to leak) they were acting as go-betweens. I'll leave you mulling over your thesaurus. I'm happy with my own definitions.
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Post by scoob on Jan 28, 2017 15:34:06 GMT
I'm not Dave. But I know my forum name can lead people to think that I am. 👍 Sorry OY, but from now on, you are 'Dave'! (Fools & Horses anyone?) He he, that was my first thought Trigger!
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Post by londonroader on Jan 28, 2017 18:39:27 GMT
You're missing the point. In the clubs OxMail column yesterday, they used the 4th stand issue as a stick to beat Kassam with. There was absolutely no mention of the latest offer. If it wasn't possible for "operational reasons", why did they not say so? That to me looks like a deliberate attempt to paint Kassam in the worst possible light. Yet, OxVox are the ones in the wrong here? I think you're missing the point. OxVox have no business selectively leaking information from their negotiations. Do you know who suggested opening up the 4th stand out of the 3 parties?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 28, 2017 18:41:20 GMT
You're missing the point. In the clubs OxMail column yesterday, they used the 4th stand issue as a stick to beat Kassam with. There was absolutely no mention of the latest offer. If it wasn't possible for "operational reasons", why did they not say so? That to me looks like a deliberate attempt to paint Kassam in the worst possible light. Yet, OxVox are the ones in the wrong here? I think you're missing the point. OxVox have no business selectively leaking information from their negotiations. It wasn't part of the negotiations though was it . Read the report they spent a long period of the meeting discussing other issues first.
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Post by ag on Jan 28, 2017 19:53:34 GMT
It's a selective leak from their "confidential " discussions with Firoz Kassam.
It is leaked to make one party look reasonable and negotiating in good faith.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 28, 2017 19:54:56 GMT
It's a selective leak from their "confidential " discussions with Firoz Kassam. It is leaked to make one party look reasonable and negotiating in good faith. You really don't understand that the only confidential discussions are about the deal to buy his stadium do u
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Post by ag on Jan 28, 2017 20:19:14 GMT
It's a selective leak from their "confidential " discussions with Firoz Kassam. It is leaked to make one party look reasonable and negotiating in good faith. You really don't understand that the only confidential discussions are about the deal to buy his stadium do u I see that OxVox have decided selectively to make public portions of their conversation with Firoz Kassam to enhance his public image and make the lib look less good. Given the complex and delicate circumstances I think that's highly inappropriate .
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 28, 2017 20:22:22 GMT
You really don't understand that the only confidential discussions are about the deal to buy his stadium do u I see that OxVox have decided selectively to make public portions of their conversation with Firoz Kassam to enhance his public image and make the lib look less good. Given the complex and delicate circumstances I think that's highly inappropriate . Do u think that Darryl making it public that he has had 3 confidential bids turned down for the stadium appropriate ? They have said they will keep members up to date where ever possible along the way. That's exactly what they have done.
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Post by minime on Jan 28, 2017 20:28:22 GMT
It's a selective leak from their "confidential " discussions with Firoz Kassam. It is leaked to make one party look reasonable and negotiating in good faith. The more I read this forum, the more clowns seem to appear, especially since Oxvox opened talks with kassam. Rightly or wrongly, Oxovx members, as well as the general OUFC supporters, have been a little impatient in regards to finding out about details of the Oxvox v Kassam v OCC discussions. Oxvox, as well as the club, have had insults and accusations flung at them over the last couple of months because they have remained relatively tight lipped. The reason for them being quiet is because THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DISCLOSE 99.999999% of the information that has been discussed at these meetings. I doubt this would be from an Oxvox point of view, it would have been insisted on by Kassam and OCC. If Oxvox reveal the wrong detail or the wrong information it would immediately spell the end of any negotiations as both Kassam and OCC would pull out. Without Kassam and OCC THERE IS NO DEAL! Because supporters and members putting Oxvox under increased pressure to advise negotiations, Oxovx, possibly against their better judgement and in their latest release this week have revealed as much as they could without landing themselves in trouble. So yes, the release did give out selective facts. Only because they are the ONLY facts that they ARE ALLOWED to release. It was, I believe, not intended to make one party look bad either. All it did was state facts and sometimes stating facts (the truth) hurt people. Unlucky. It is what it is! Look at the club's public statements and rhetoric (look it up!) over the last couple of months - especially in regards to the training ground issue - and you will soon see that the club has gone massively downhill in what they release and how they release it and have been caught out more than once over it by not getting their publically released facts straight. GBT et al are not above criticism, regardless of who they are, and have not always done or said what is best or right. To be fair, if you look at how the club has conducted itself over the last 6-9 months off the pitch - Stewards, Flags, Balloons, Training Ground, Stadium, Oxvox etc you will release that something in the garden isn't as rosey as it may seem
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Post by minime on Jan 28, 2017 20:29:08 GMT
You really don't understand that the only confidential discussions are about the deal to buy his stadium do u I see that OxVox have decided selectively to make public portions of their conversation with Firoz Kassam to enhance his public image and make the lib look less good. Given the complex and delicate circumstances I think that's highly inappropriate . Is being an idiot your profession or just a hobby?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 28, 2017 21:33:18 GMT
Your response shows that the reason why it was released as part of the ongoing conflict between Kassam and the club. It's very important in my view that OxVox should not take sides in this dispute. The attitude of those close to Oxvox seems to be to attack Eales and the board (despite the many good things he has acheived for the club so far since his association with us ) and to defend Kassam despite the many more ways he has damaged the club since he began his (for him) very profitable relationship with Oxford United. As far as Charlie's response -either they maintain confidentiality or they don't. Selective leaking to favour one side is utterly inappropriate, and suggests there's a danger (like FOUL before them) that OxVox are becoming Firoz Kassam's useful idiots. That isn't sensitive leaking, it has nothing to do with ongoing negotiations over the stadium, the club are not involved in those. Anyway if things go to form as they have over the last two months, oxvox or firoz will now confirm that it wasn't for 1 game, and the clubs claim in the press, like with the training ground gets made to look a bit silly . Never ending Told you, read the other thread !! He didn't want a cut, and it was hoped it could stay up longer. Again totally different to what the club said www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15054994.Oxford_United__Fourth_stand_for_Newcastle_clash_was__not_viable_/
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Post by minime on Jan 28, 2017 21:48:51 GMT
That isn't sensitive leaking, it has nothing to do with ongoing negotiations over the stadium, the club are not involved in those. Anyway if things go to form as they have over the last two months, oxvox or firoz will now confirm that it wasn't for 1 game, and the clubs claim in the press, like with the training ground gets made to look a bit silly . Never ending Told you, read the other thread !! He didn't want a cut, and it was hoped it could stay up longer. Again totally different to what the club said www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15054994.Oxford_United__Fourth_stand_for_Newcastle_clash_was__not_viable_/Ahhh, but is it the club or Ox mail talking bollocks?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 29, 2017 8:54:49 GMT
Ahhh, but is it the club or Ox mail talking bollocks? Even a puppet can only say what the the hand makes it
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Post by mcf86 on Jan 29, 2017 9:10:17 GMT
But a finger puppet can make gestures!
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Post by ag on Jan 29, 2017 9:32:08 GMT
So did Oxvox ask Kassam to explain why he had opposed the erection of the 4th stand since planning permission was granted in the summer? Or is the position "don't upset Firoz"
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 29, 2017 9:33:51 GMT
So did Oxvox ask Kassam to explain why he had opposed the erection of the 4th stand since planning permission was granted in the summer? Or is the position "don't upset Firoz" He's already explained his position . Suppose you missed that bit
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Post by ag on Jan 29, 2017 9:49:11 GMT
So did Oxvox ask Kassam to explain why he had opposed the erection of the 4th stand since planning permission was granted in the summer? Or is the position "don't upset Firoz" He's already explained his position . Suppose you missed that bit Yes I did miss it- perhaps you could restate it. Also is Oxvox policy to take all statements by Firoz Kassam at face value? Because I'll meet you for a drink in the Priory to explain why that's a bad idea.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 29, 2017 9:50:58 GMT
He's already explained his position . Suppose you missed that bit Yes I did miss it- perhaps you could restate it. Also is Oxvox policy to take all statements by Firoz Kassam at face value? Because I'll meet you for a drink in the Priory to explain why that's a bad idea. That is quite funny!
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 29, 2017 9:51:55 GMT
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Post by ag on Jan 29, 2017 10:54:20 GMT
Thnaks for the link.
the key paragraph seems to be this bit
It doesn't suggest a mature negoatiator ready to work with the club- or indeed anyone - for the long term future of the football club.
In fact if you shut your eyes it could be Donald Trump.
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Post by Junior on Jan 29, 2017 11:17:11 GMT
So, as he's allowed it for yesterday, the bills have now been paid and he's been paid what he was owed??
I'm also guessing it's go go go for the 4th stand for the next 3 seasons then...
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