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Post by foley on Sept 27, 2014 20:46:53 GMT
I am sure that MAPP is a good guy.
I think that he has the team playing entertaining football.
But... the points total after 10 games is terrible (who would have settled for that at the start of the season)? We are conceding too many soft goals and not scoring enough.
MAPP needs to sort things out very quickly. It is galling seeing what Wycombe are doing in our Division and Swin*** are doing in the Division above. I am not sure that they have better players...?
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 27, 2014 20:50:22 GMT
I am sure that MAPP is a good guy.
I think that he has the team playing entertaining football.
But... the points total after 10 games is terrible (who would have settled for that at the start of the season)? We are conceding too many soft goals and not scoring enough.
MAPP needs to sort things out very quickly. It is galling seeing what Wycombe are doing in our Division and Swin*** are doing in the Division above. I am not sure that they have better players...? Did you go to the game? Do you think we deserved to lose? We were by far the better team. Only difference was that their keeper could save our attempts, whilst ours is frankly useless.
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Post by TurnOfFrase on Sept 27, 2014 20:54:20 GMT
That's incredibly unfair on Long. The first goal was a defensive error, that player shouldn't have been allowed to get on the ball so easily. And the penalty as far as I could see Long did his job, where were the oxford players who should have been waiting to pounce on the edge of the box in the event they'd need to clear a follow up shot?
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 27, 2014 21:00:07 GMT
That's incredibly unfair on Long. The first goal was a defensive error, that player shouldn't have been allowed to get on the ball so easily. And the penalty as far as I could see Long did his job, where were the oxford players who should have been waiting to pounce on the edge of the box in the event they'd need to clear a follow up shot? From where I was sat behind the goal the first should have been a regulation save. It looked like he just completely misjudged where the ball was. For the penalty it was absolutely criminal to parry the ball where he did. And it's not the first time he has made this mistake.
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Post by uptheus on Sept 28, 2014 16:43:04 GMT
That's incredibly unfair on Long. The first goal was a defensive error, that player shouldn't have been allowed to get on the ball so easily. And the penalty as far as I could see Long did his job, where were the oxford players who should have been waiting to pounce on the edge of the box in the event they'd need to clear a follow up shot? From where I was sat behind the goal the first should have been a regulation save. It looked like he just completely misjudged where the ball was. For the penalty it was absolutely criminal to parry the ball where he did. And it's not the first time he has made this mistake. Agree with you with the first goal, but having just seen the penalty incident again on TV I thought it was harsh. Difficult to tell if it was Hylton or Mullins, but doesn't look intentional. Additional to the above, I don't think Hylton was at his best yesterday and I'd actually said a few minutes earlier that he needed to come off. I would have taken Barnett off first, and put Morris on. Would have seen how that was going and if that wasn't working I would have taken Hylton off for Jakubiak. Would have brought Brown on for my last substitution, but not sure where I would have played him as the only really position wound be on the left side, but with O'Dowda being one of our better players (even though he didn't have the best of games yesterday) not sure if that wound have been the best decision. But I did feel as though O'Dowda faded yesterday. Anyway, all if's and but's now!! But MApp has got to start making substitutions.
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 28, 2014 16:44:12 GMT
From where I was sat behind the goal the first should have been a regulation save. It looked like he just completely misjudged where the ball was. For the penalty it was absolutely criminal to parry the ball where he did. And it's not the first time he has made this mistake. Agree with you with the first goal, but having just seen the penalty incident again on TV I thought it was harsh. Difficult to tell if it was Hylton or Mullins, but doesn't look intentional. Additional to the above, I don't think Hylton was at his best yesterday and I'd actually said a few minutes earlier that he needed to come off. I would have taken Barnett off first, and put Morris on. Would have seen how that was going and if that wasn't working I would have taken Hylton off for Jakubiak. Would have brought Brown on for my last substitution, but not sure where I would have played him as the only really position wound be on the left side, but with O'Dowda being one of our better players (even though he didn't have the best of games yesterday not sure if that wound have been the best decision. But I did feel as though O'Dowda faded yesterday. Anyway, all if's and but's now!! But MApp has got to start making substitutions. Was talking about Long! Saying its criminal to comfortable save a pen and not push it out of danger
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 20:49:40 GMT
It was straight down the middle.... Pretty tricky skill to save it from 12 yards and push it away. Bit different to a save in the corner. There was no angle to play with but he was already diving.
Your words are a tad harsh.
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 29, 2014 10:39:25 GMT
It was straight down the middle.... Pretty tricky skill to save it from 12 yards and push it away. Bit different to a save in the corner. There was no angle to play with but he was already diving. Your words are a tad harsh. Watch FLS, the pen was sent to Long bottom right. He dives the right way and makes the save (great!) but doesn;t have the nous to get it away from the danger. I'm pretty confident that Clarke would have been able to do this - we've seen him do it many many times before. Maybe my words would be harsh if these were isolated incidents. But they aren't, there is a question mark over whether Long should have prevented a high proportion of the goals we have conceded. That is not good enough.
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Post by southupper on Sept 29, 2014 15:05:34 GMT
Mullins said on radio ox that all the team were enjoying playing the way that MAPP is insisting is his plan A, does this mean they are all enjoying losing?
It is proven time and time again pretty football in league two will get you nowhere, apart from where we are. We cannot defend and thus when we have taken the lead we cannot hold on.
All of the fancy dan stuff that this regime have introduced will not be sustained by a Conference side because that is where we are heading.
After ten games it is time to press the panic button or else we will be cast adrift from the bottom of the league and unable to catch up if and when MAPP wakes up from his dream of pretty patacake football, wait till the grounds get heavy, you have to have a plan B then.
PANIC now
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 29, 2014 15:15:25 GMT
Mullins said on radio ox that all the team were enjoying playing the way that MAPP is insisting is his plan A, does this mean they are all enjoying losing? It is proven time and time again pretty football in league two will get you nowhere, apart from where we are. We cannot defend and thus when we have taken the lead we cannot hold on. All of the fancy dan stuff that this regime have introduced will not be sustained by a Conference side because that is where we are heading. After ten games it is time to press the panic button or else we will be cast adrift from the bottom of the league and unable to catch up if and when MAPP wakes up from his dream of pretty patacake football, wait till the grounds get heavy, you have to have a plan B then. PANIC now Panic when we are 14th in the foru table, just lost our first in 6 games and are finally a pleasure to watch? Things are not all rosy, but it is not time to panic.
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Post by southupper on Sept 29, 2014 15:32:38 GMT
We are second from bottom of the league, no matter how pretty it looks on the pitch, the stats do not lie, we have 7 points and cannot prevent our opponents from scoring and are incapable of scoring ourselves. Not that I want him back but if CW had had a start to the season like this every man jack would be calling for his head, it is results that we need now not pretty patterns.
PLAN B now!!!!
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Post by Si Bradbury on Sept 29, 2014 16:13:19 GMT
Waddock wouldn't have even got to 10 games with a string of results but this is different. Appleton is changing the style of play, philosophy and hasn't even yet brought in his own team of players (only Brown, Howard and Collins have come in permanently). The loan's have been a necessary evil to fill out a sqaud for him to work with short-term.
Wilder had five years and built side after side, whilst complaining all the way through. Waddock brought in only one player to the club under his tenure, Danny Hylton.
Personally I'd like to see an established L2 backroom staff come in and help the coaching set-up and to offer some invaluable insight into L2 football. But Appleton at the moment, has demonstrated he is the man that could really change Oxford United.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 16:24:57 GMT
It is proven time and time again pretty football in league two will get you nowhere, apart from where we are. We cannot defend and thus when we have taken the lead we cannot hold on. I must have imagined Chesterfield and, and I apologise, Swindon playing fantastic football. I also must be imagining all the teams that I've seen us play that employ despicably bad, direct and odious football who, year-in-year-out, fail to get promotion. After all that's what you and others suggest is the winning formula. Indeed our previous manager had us playing in an utterly dreadful style and he failed to get us to trouble the League 2 promotion spots once (I just thought I'd write that to remind those who have already decided to re-write history and suggest that he brought us unbridled success, rather than the abject, mind numbing and horribly disappointing failure that was the reality). Style is irrelevant; your ability to be good at whichever style you choose is the area to focus on. Right now, we haven't reached that standard and it needs to improve, but let's not confuse ourselves with pure style over a combination of style and ability to match.
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Post by tonyw on Sept 29, 2014 20:35:48 GMT
Did you go to the game? Do you think we deserved to lose? We were by far the better team. Only difference was that their keeper could save our attempts, whilst ours is frankly useless. I went to the game, and yes I thought we deserved to lose. We must have had, what, 65% possession? But only created two chances of note - the two Barnett headers from great COD deliveries (one of which was after the game was already over) - and otherwise were restricted to speculative efforts from outside the area. Luton were extremely limited as a footballing side, but they worked really hard and they were set up astutely (especially after halftime) to nullify what we were trying to do. With some calmer finishing, they could have had more than two. The fact that we're able to pass it beautifully around the middle of the park does not in itself mean we are the better team. There's more to a football game than that.
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 30, 2014 10:01:23 GMT
Did you go to the game? Do you think we deserved to lose? We were by far the better team. Only difference was that their keeper could save our attempts, whilst ours is frankly useless. I went to the game, and yes I thought we deserved to lose. We must have had, what, 65% possession? But only created two chances of note - the two Barnett headers from great COD deliveries (one of which was after the game was already over) - and otherwise were restricted to speculative efforts from outside the area. Luton were extremely limited as a footballing side, but they worked really hard and they were set up astutely (especially after halftime) to nullify what we were trying to do. With some calmer finishing, they could have had more than two. The fact that we're able to pass it beautifully around the middle of the park does not in itself mean we are the better team. There's more to a football game than that. For what reason did we deserve to lose though? We had more of the ball than them, we had more chances than then (2 Barnett headers, his deflected shot which was well saved, COD's shot whihc just went over the bar, the two pathetic free kicks from outside the area... compared to their one header, one stupid pen and a sitter at the beginnning)... We may not have deserved to win, but to say we deserved to lose it odd in my book
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Post by southupper on Sept 30, 2014 10:07:34 GMT
Brahmabull I am not advocating kick and rush football, nor am I against trying to change the culture of the club, my concern is that whilst doing all of this the results have not been good enough. Your point about an experienced L2 backroom team is very valid; L2 is miles away from where the current coaching staff have been operating (except Mickey Lewis ). and perhaps some sage words from a.n. other might not be out of place. I would not want us to become a CW like side but I do think that there needs to be some compromise in recognition of what wins games in L2.
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Post by baldy on Sept 30, 2014 11:07:01 GMT
I went to the game, and yes I thought we deserved to lose. We must have had, what, 65% possession? But only created two chances of note - the two Barnett headers from great COD deliveries (one of which was after the game was already over) - and otherwise were restricted to speculative efforts from outside the area. Luton were extremely limited as a footballing side, but they worked really hard and they were set up astutely (especially after halftime) to nullify what we were trying to do. With some calmer finishing, they could have had more than two. The fact that we're able to pass it beautifully around the middle of the park does not in itself mean we are the better team. There's more to a football game than that. For what reason did we deserve to lose though? We had more of the ball than them, we had more chances than then (2 Barnett headers, his deflected shot which was well saved, COD's shot whihc just went over the bar, the two pathetic free kicks from outside the area... compared to their one header, one stupid pen and a sitter at the beginnning)... We may not have deserved to win, but to say we deserved to lose it odd in my book Completely agree. How anyone can say we deserved to lose is, quite frankly, beyond me. What did Luton actually do bar defend and launch the odd attack ? At least we got in behind down the channels a few times, had a couple of pokes at goal, few balls across their box and dug out a couple of sitters for Barnett. Luton ? Did nothing. Did Long make a save ? They are a horrible side to watch and how anybody who attended that game can say they deserved the victory is bewildering.
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Post by tonyw on Sept 30, 2014 22:05:02 GMT
For what reason did we deserve to lose though? We had more of the ball than them, we had more chances than then (2 Barnett headers, his deflected shot which was well saved, COD's shot whihc just went over the bar, the two pathetic free kicks from outside the area... compared to their one header, one stupid pen and a sitter at the beginnning)... We may not have deserved to win, but to say we deserved to lose it odd in my book You've said it yourself - we threw in three bad pieces of defending. Conceding from a set piece inside two minutes is terrible, the penalty was obviously idiocy of the highest order and the sitter at the beginning was keystone cops defending. Luton meanwhile defended solidly and without serious error for 90 minutes. The few chances we carved out were down to good bits of individual skill (mainly from COD). There seems to be a significant groundswell of opinion that because this season we're often the more skilled team, the team better at passing and the team with more attacking intent - that we deserve to win matches because of it. And it's starting to drive me nuts because it's ignoring half the game. Defensive organisation, discipline and commitment are every bit as important in a game of football. And on those criteria, Luton absolutely kicked our butts on Saturday. And they're not the first team to do so this season (try Burton on opening day for starters......). Sure, Wilder probably focused too much on those aspects. But from what I've seen, Appleton doesn't focus on them nearly enough. A high proportion of football matches, particularly at League Two level where there's not much separating the sides, are decided by which team fucks up the least. On Saturday that was Luton.
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Post by billyox on Oct 1, 2014 4:37:14 GMT
A quote from lou macri something I believe Mapp should be thinking about When I took my first management job at Swindon in the old Fourth Division, one of the things I had to adjust to was the fact I was working with players with lesser ability than at Old Trafford. There was a danger of demanding they play like top-flight footballers and then become frustrated with them when they couldn't. But I didn't see any reason why the players at Swindon couldn't be as fit as the players at Manchester United. That was something we worked really hard on, the players accepted it, and we reaped the rewards with promotion in my second season."
—Macari recalls his Swindon days.[6]
Sent from my SM-N9005 using proboards
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Post by tatabanya on Oct 1, 2014 8:54:55 GMT
For what reason did we deserve to lose though? We had more of the ball than them, we had more chances than then (2 Barnett headers, his deflected shot which was well saved, COD's shot whihc just went over the bar, the two pathetic free kicks from outside the area... compared to their one header, one stupid pen and a sitter at the beginnning)... We may not have deserved to win, but to say we deserved to lose it odd in my book You've said it yourself - we threw in three bad pieces of defending. Conceding from a set piece inside two minutes is terrible, the penalty was obviously idiocy of the highest order and the sitter at the beginning was keystone cops defending. Luton meanwhile defended solidly and without serious error for 90 minutes. The few chances we carved out were down to good bits of individual skill (mainly from COD). There seems to be a significant groundswell of opinion that because this season we're often the more skilled team, the team better at passing and the team with more attacking intent - that we deserve to win matches because of it. And it's starting to drive me nuts because it's ignoring half the game. Defensive organisation, discipline and commitment are every bit as important in a game of football. And on those criteria, Luton absolutely kicked our butts on Saturday. And they're not the first team to do so this season (try Burton on opening day for starters......). Sure, Wilder probably focused too much on those aspects. But from what I've seen, Appleton doesn't focus on them nearly enough. A high proportion of football matches, particularly at League Two level where there's not much separating the sides, are decided by which team f*cks up the least. On Saturday that was Luton. You can't claim that their free header was our mistake but Barnett's two were our creation. By your logic Luton made two errors allowing Barnett free headers on goal and two errors gifting Oxford free-kicks right on the edge of the area. You can't have it both ways. Both teams made erros, sadly ours were more costly but on the balance of play to say we deseverd to lose is plain wrong.
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Post by tonyw on Oct 1, 2014 10:16:07 GMT
You can't claim that their free header was our mistake but Barnett's two were our creation. By your logic Luton made two errors allowing Barnett free headers on goal and two errors gifting Oxford free-kicks right on the edge of the area. You can't have it both ways. Both teams made erros, sadly ours were more costly but on the balance of play to say we deseverd to lose is plain wrong. A gorgeous ball in from the flank from a winger who's done his man - to a striker coming into the box at pace against a defense that is necessarily static - is a very different beast from a set piece. There's an argument, sure, that Luton's first goal was just good play as well. Good ball, good header. Personally, I view most set piece goals as avoidable. You clearly viewed it as a goalkeeping error - and keepers are part of the team as well. Anyways, this argument will resolve itself in time. Your view clearly seems to be that we've been playing better than are opponents and therefore are unlucky to have only 7 points and 9 goals from 10 games. And therefore that will likely even itself out and we will rise up the table if we keep doing the same things. My view is that the pretty football is masking serious failings in defensive organisation, discipline and tactical flexibiltiy - and that we won't suddenly go on an extended winning run until we correct that. Let us see.
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Post by Toeby on Oct 1, 2014 12:41:30 GMT
I agree with tonyw in that our defending hasn't been good enough.
I remember coming away from the Dagenham game thinking that we could've lost 6-3 (or won 6-3, or any combination in between)
Appleton likes to keep the ball, which is all very well and good, the problem is when we lose it. Because we try and keep it high up the pitch, it's easy to launch a quick counter attack on us and we haven't got the men back to deal with it.
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Post by oufcrealist on Oct 1, 2014 15:14:42 GMT
I think the defenders are missing Andy Melville's coaching. The positioning and organisation are a shambles at times. I also think we have lost our solidity and toughness to defend as a unit at times. Players are often stood looking at each other as if to say 'that's your job' One thing I thought was overkill with the pretty football at Luton was when we were 2-0 down with 10-15 mins to play. We still carried on passing it around at the back and middle like we had all the time in the world and the game had just started! I was shouting for a bit of urgency. A plan B if you like to get the ball in and around the Luton box quicker. I also think DH should play as the central striker, it seemed to work in earlier games. But he's not a MApp signing and he'll do well just to keep his place. I'm not sure we needed TB to be honest.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Oct 1, 2014 15:31:31 GMT
I think the defenders are missing Andy Melville's coaching. The positioning and organisation are a shambles at times. I also think we have lost our solidity and toughness to defend as a unit at times. Players are often stood looking at each other as if to say 'that's your job' One thing I thought was overkill with the pretty football at Luton was when we were 2-0 down with 10-15 mins to play. We still carried on passing it around at the back and middle like we had all the time in the world and the game had just started! I was shouting for a bit of urgency. A plan B if you like to get the ball in and around the Luton box quicker. I also think DH should play as the central striker, it seemed to work in earlier games. But he's not a MApp signing and he'll do well just to keep his place. I'm not sure we needed TB to be honest. I have to agree with you there, Do you think MMAP might try Raynes and Mullins at the back worked pretty well last season and Newey is playing a lot better it is the right side of defence to be sorted
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