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Post by baldy on Sept 21, 2014 18:40:51 GMT
Where do you stand on RVP... Undoubtedly a world class finisher. Look at him at the WC two months ago, done it on the biggest stage against top opposition. So far this season he doesn't look up to speed yet. I don't think he will get another contract at Man U, in fact it's certain he won't. I think he has this season in him though but by next season his Man U career could well be over. I could possibly see him being a bit like a Drogba signing for perhaps a big club in the PL or one of Europes elite. Someone will take a punt on him for a year or two but it's not that he will become a poor player suddenly but more a case of him being overtaken by younger players. I have to be honest I thought he'd be flying out of the traps under LVG but whether it's a WC hangover I don't know but he needs to get up to pace quickly for his own career and for the club.
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Post by baldy on Sept 21, 2014 18:44:43 GMT
If fabregas had been available 12 months earlier then ozil would never have worn a arsenal shirt. He can't have been that bad though as man Utd were in for him right up to the point arsenal signed him I think. Some players just can't adapt to the English leagues for some reason. Veron , shevchenko, and other big names have come over and not lived up to their reputation. Dunno if that's more Down to the league or the team they join. Torres for example , great in the prem settled well then swaps and crap. Maybe ozil would fit better at another team who knows Agree. There are players who for whatever reason don't settle here but their careers will forever be tarnished because of it- Veron being a great example. He will probably be remembered in time for what he didn't do at Man U as opposed to what he did do at Inter or wherever it was.
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Post by Junior on Sept 21, 2014 19:01:12 GMT
Where do you stand on RVP... Don't do that , fergie said it could kill him Don't get it, please explain.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 21, 2014 19:06:30 GMT
Don't do that , fergie said it could kill him Don't get it, please explain. A jokes not funny if you have to explain it.
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Post by bigfella72 on Sept 21, 2014 19:27:56 GMT
Don't get it, please explain. A jokes not funny if you have to explain it. I got it!
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Post by stevegilbert on Sept 21, 2014 19:37:40 GMT
A jokes not funny if you have to explain it. I got it! Me too! Imagine if you stood on him AND kicked a ball at him.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 21, 2014 19:46:15 GMT
Wouldn't recommend that, you'd probably end up turning an ankle; specially if he was writhing about in his death throes.
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Post by grumpygit on Sept 21, 2014 19:56:32 GMT
I'm old enough to remember a 6-3 defeat at The Dell to Southampton. Four months later they were lifting the PL title and as I remember they followed or preceded that Southampton result with another heavy loss somewhere, 5-0 if I remember right. LVG said on MUTV that when he was in charge of Barcelona they were 3-0 up with 18 minutes to go and lost 4-3 to a team near the bottom. Freak results happen and just add to the colour of the most exciting league in the world. When do freaks results become just results? Beaten by Swansea and Leicester. Draws against Sunderland and Burnley. Just one win against QPR. 9 for 8 against. LVG has spent god knows how much, but obviously on the wrong players.
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Post by Hicko on Sept 21, 2014 20:03:51 GMT
Me too! Imagine if you stood on him AND kicked a ball at him. would he die twice!!??
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Post by scotchegg on Sept 21, 2014 20:28:10 GMT
I'm old enough to remember a 6-3 defeat at The Dell to Southampton. Four months later they were lifting the PL title and as I remember they followed or preceded that Southampton result with another heavy loss somewhere, 5-0 if I remember right. LVG said on MUTV that when he was in charge of Barcelona they were 3-0 up with 18 minutes to go and lost 4-3 to a team near the bottom. Freak results happen and just add to the colour of the most exciting league in the world. When do freaks results become just results? Beaten by Swansea and Leicester. Draws against Sunderland and Burnley. Just one win against QPR. 9 for 8 against. LVG has spent god knows how much, but obviously on the wrong players. It's like the quote "Form is temporary, class is permanent" - but how long does that hold water? A freak result would be a one off. Poor form could be a run of 5 or 6 games. A season + of poor results is the reason many in the game have questioned when the slump will finish. I'm sure that Man Utd will score plenty and win many games this season. But for the money spent that isn't enough. Challenging at the top would be the expectation, top 4 is a must. Chelsea and Man City look too strong for any of the others. Arsenal will be there or there about. Liverpool, Spurs and Everton have started below expectation. Is 3rd or 4th success, and is it achievable with the current defensive weaknesses?
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Post by gofish on Sept 21, 2014 22:14:33 GMT
Deleted this original post as I've decided it was unbecoming
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Post by Junior on Sept 21, 2014 22:16:28 GMT
A very lengthy reply. One which didn't include the howlers by the referee. Whys that? Not suit the agenda you're painting? Face it, Man Utd dominated that game up until the penalty. Leicester? Whilst competitive were never getting a point let alone three out of that.
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Post by Junior on Sept 21, 2014 22:21:46 GMT
If you want to contact me via the DM option that's fine, let's do it. But as you know who I am, id expect you to revel who you are. Not nice talking to an egg you see.
Fair?
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Post by scotchegg on Sept 21, 2014 22:37:35 GMT
If you want to contact me via the DM option that's fine, let's do it. But as you know who I am, id expect you to revel who you are. Not nice talking to an egg you see. Fair? You talking to me?
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Post by stevegilbert on Sept 22, 2014 6:28:15 GMT
A very lengthy reply. One which didn't include the howlers by the referee. Whys that? Not suit the agenda you're painting? Face it, Man Utd dominated that game up until the penalty. Leicester? Whilst competitive were never getting a point let alone three out of that. The ref's howlers? He made one by giving Man U a corner when the ball didn't come close to touching a Leicester player. The free kick that wasn't given is a 50/50 and an old fashioned shoulder barge. Some refs give them and some don't. Again for the penalty he has pushed him in the back with just enough force to send the player over. Again some refs give them and some don't. The last penalty was as clear cut as they come. Man U should of beaten them yesterday regardless of 1 penalty shout. If they can't cope with Leicester away then I fear it could be a long hard season for them.
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Post by baldy on Sept 22, 2014 7:05:29 GMT
A very lengthy reply. One which didn't include the howlers by the referee. Whys that? Not suit the agenda you're painting? Face it, Man Utd dominated that game up until the penalty. Leicester? Whilst competitive were never getting a point let alone three out of that. The ref's howlers? He made one by giving Man U a corner when the ball didn't come close to touching a Leicester player. The free kick that wasn't given is a 50/50 and an old fashioned shoulder barge. Some refs give them and some don't. Again for the penalty he has pushed him in the back with just enough force to send the player over. Again some refs give them and some don't. The last penalty was as clear cut as they come. Man U should of beaten them yesterday regardless of 1 penalty shout. If they can't cope with Leicester away then I fear it could be a long hard season for them. Come on steve ! Put your bias aside and be sensible. That was never an old fashioned shoulder barge on Rafael. I'm old school and hate over zealous refereeing but Vardy took his eye totally off the ball, cut across Rafael and blatantly shoved him not just with his shoulder but his arm too. Every single pundit says as clear as day it's a foul and so blatant that its not worthy of debate. Once inside the box it was never a foul by Rafael, that was scandalous. Watch the replay from the head on view, Vardy once again just runs across Rafael and falls over. NO contact from Rafael at all. Look, Man U should have seen that out no question but for anyone to suggest that didn't alter the course of the game is plainly wrong. It reinvigorated Leicester and flattened Man U. Perhaps they should have been more professional in keeping their shape but don't lose sight of game changing incidents and that was a shocking call from the referee - TWICE !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 7:32:18 GMT
Manchester United can feel robbed with that shove by Vardy, the penalty wouldn't have happened. Leicesters corner cross looked over the line too but it was a great goal from it. Manchester United were unfortunate to hit the post too. Even though they lost 3-5 what cannot be denied is that they have turned into a team that entertain even though they have defensive frailties. Other teams know this and will play to get a result. LVG was conspicuous in his absence of criticism of the referee. I wonder how much SAF would have raved at the defeat.
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Post by SteMerritt on Sept 22, 2014 7:33:27 GMT
Firstly, it was a foul from the (admittedly very poor) youtube video I saw. I have no idea where the ref was standing, all I can suggest is that it must have looked like a '50/50 shoulder barge' from where he was. The clip finished before the challenge that gave away the penalty. I expect I'll see it later in the day somewhere in full.
Secondly, it was 3-1 at the time. The penalty made it 3-2. A professional team should be able to put that out of their heads, and see out the game from there. But to implode to a mid-table side at best? Of course it had a big impact in the course of things, but using it as a 'smokescreen' to cover all the other faults exposed by the closing performance is just sour grapes I'm afraid.
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Post by Boogaloo on Sept 22, 2014 7:34:18 GMT
I saw it last night, and the foul by Rafael in the penalty was a clear penalty area. But.... the challenge when he got shoved off the ball was also a foul too, so Man Utd to be fair have the right to feel a little bit aggrieved. As Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink said, if you give one then you have to give the other - they were as equalliy as bad as each other. However, that does not excuse the stupidity by Rafael. As soon as he was barged off the ball by Vardy, you could see it in his eyes that his intention was to stop Vardy by any means possible - fair or foul. It was pure retribution for what went on earlier, and to that in the penalty area is crazy.
Plus that only brought the score back to 3-2 to Man Utd. They were still winning with less than half an hour to go, so they can't blame that.
As for the other penalty and sending off - that was as clear-cut as they come, and Tyler Blackett was right to be shown the red card as the striker was just about to pull the trigger in front of goal.
Mind you, it was very refreshing to see van Gaal not blame the ref, and instead blame his players for not seeing the match out. The referee is an easy target, but if you want to improve you need to address a few home truths first.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 8:12:37 GMT
Very balanced argument boogaloo Man Utd can have no complaints. Did Fergie see the foul and miss the penalty?
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Post by Junior on Sept 22, 2014 8:13:40 GMT
Ref missed another foul by Vardy in the build up to the penalty. He's shoved his man. After that it's a pen and a red, no arguments.
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Post by Rugbyox on Sept 22, 2014 9:09:47 GMT
Ref missed another foul by Vardy in the build up to the penalty. He's shoved his man. After that it's a pen and a red, no arguments. Shove is a bit of a stretch, he used his strength and eased his man of the ball, any different to a defender standing his ground when a ball is rolling out for a goal kick and deliberately holding the striker off with his body? Or is football a non contact sport now?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:18:24 GMT
If I were a Man U fan, I'd spend less time bleating about how biased Mark Clattenburg was and how the first penalty was SOOOO unfair, and more time asking how the biggest team in the world, with probably the best forward line in the world were beaten 5-3 by a newly promoted side. Could it be that our defence is crap? Could it be that the millions should have been more evenly distributed around the squad?
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Post by SteMerritt on Sept 22, 2014 9:26:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 9:28:42 GMT
Yep, lot of class that Louis. Telling it how it was rather than how he would have liked it to have been. Can't help thinking some of Man U's more hysterical fans could learn from him.
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Post by baldy on Sept 22, 2014 10:37:55 GMT
I saw it last night, and the foul by Rafael in the penalty was a clear penalty area. But.... the challenge when he got shoved off the ball was also a foul too, so Man Utd to be fair have the right to feel a little bit aggrieved. As Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink said, if you give one then you have to give the other - they were as equalliy as bad as each other. However, that does not excuse the stupidity by Rafael. As soon as he was barged off the ball by Vardy, you could see it in his eyes that his intention was to stop Vardy by any means possible - fair or foul. It was pure retribution for what went on earlier, and to that in the penalty area is crazy. Plus that only brought the score back to 3-2 to Man Utd. They were still winning with less than half an hour to go, so they can't blame that. As for the other penalty and sending off - that was as clear-cut as they come, and Tyler Blackett was right to be shown the red card as the striker was just about to pull the trigger in front of goal. Mind you, it was very refreshing to see van Gaal not blame the ref, and instead blame his players for not seeing the match out. The referee is an easy target, but if you want to improve you need to address a few home truths first. That is just wrong. You are saying that the penalty area incident is no different to the coming together by the corner flag ? What did Rafael do in the penalty area that Vardy didn't also do in the box ? It's a contact sport so there is always going to be bodily contact. If you don't allow that then, what, 20 to 30 penalties a game ? I guarantee you there'd have been more shoving, grabbing and holding at dead balls than there was by Rafael on Vardy. What are you suggesting Rafael did on Vardy ? Hold ? Trip ? Pull ? Push ? Genuinely I am at a loss to know the reason it was given and would love Clattenburg to just say what it was for. That would help defuse things but keeping a stoney silence will have pundits, fans and even bloody rocket scientists scratching their heads to make head or tail of that. No one I've spoken to has a clue as to what it was for.
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Post by baldy on Sept 22, 2014 10:46:00 GMT
Yep, lot of class that Louis. Telling it how it was rather than how he would have liked it to have been. Can't help thinking some of Man U's more hysterical fans could learn from him. He won't be that easy once he's seen the sheer ineptitude of Clattenburg on a replay rather than speaking within minutes of the match ending. Man U have some teething problems but the Referees Association have problems ten fold in comparison if that's one of their best at work. I think you can reluctantly accept one appalling call but two in the space of three seconds and ten yards I think raises real, serious concerns about the performance of Clattenburg. I can't ever recall a referee previously getting something so spectacularly wrong in such a short time frame twice over. He won't get a Man U game until Christmas. Stoke, Hull or WBA await that muppet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 10:50:34 GMT
Its a soft penalty, but the type of penalty that gets given these days. The premiership is guilty of giving decisions like that frequently.
I don't like Clattenberg, definitely don't rate him. However in his defence from the position he was in he has made a split second decision. He doesn't have the benefit of replays. He should of given the foul before hand but he never, so thats the end of it I guess. They are always going to make a few mistakes, you have to give them that.
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Post by KLYellow on Sept 22, 2014 11:00:49 GMT
Had great fun in the office today as there is a few Man U supporters. Went upto one of them and said "don't forget we have a meeting today" he said "when?" I said 5 to 3..
After he stopped smiling I said well, don't worry at least your in the top half of the table... Then well you must be higher than Liverpool as they are doing poorly. Or even you must be above City??
Great fun...
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Post by baldy on Sept 22, 2014 11:16:55 GMT
Its a soft penalty, but the type of penalty that gets given these days. The premiership is guilty of giving decisions like that frequently. I don't like Clattenberg, definitely don't rate him. However in his defence from the position he was in he has made a split second decision. He doesn't have the benefit of replays. He should of given the foul before hand but he never, so thats the end of it I guess. They are always going to make a few mistakes, you have to give them that. Any idea what it was for though ? Vardy veers across Rafael, goes down and the ref says penalty. No leg out, no arm out, just two player tussling for the ball and one decides to fall over. Why do you think it was given ? For what actual offence ?
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