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Post by Chris1986 on Jul 22, 2014 11:13:25 GMT
Why do we need one?
This really annoys me, it's not cricket or the Ryder cup. It's a football squad that meets up every couple of months and nobody should be guaranteed a starting place. There should be a group of senior players given the responsibility of leading the squad not one person singled out as a permanent captain who then has to be picked for every game no matter how his form is.
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Post by aaronoxf on Jul 22, 2014 11:18:37 GMT
I like your way of thinking but I think the captain does a lot more behind the scenes I.e mediates etc
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Post by SteMerritt on Jul 22, 2014 11:26:07 GMT
We need a captain because we need someone to have the responsibility of carrying the pennant out for the pre-match pleasantries.
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Post by m on Jul 22, 2014 11:29:08 GMT
Why do we need one? This really annoys me, it's not cricket or the Ryder cup. It's a football squad that meets up every couple of months and nobody should be guaranteed a starting place. There should be a group of senior players given the responsibility of leading the squad not one person singled out as a permanent captain who then has to be picked for every game no matter how his form is. Not that it's enforced but I like the idea that only the captain may approach the referee.
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Post by Boogaloo on Jul 22, 2014 11:48:13 GMT
We need a captain because we need someone to have the responsibility of carrying the pennant out for the pre-match pleasantries. Not to mention the enormous responsibility of choosing heads or tails. Only a specially skilled type of player can be entrusted with such a major responsibility.
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Post by sihath on Jul 22, 2014 11:54:07 GMT
We need a captain because we need someone to have the responsibility of carrying the pennant out for the pre-match pleasantries. They also need to know which way up to hold the thing. Not as easy as you would think.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jul 22, 2014 12:02:45 GMT
We need a captain because we need someone to have the responsibility of carrying the pennant out for the pre-match pleasantries. They also need to know which way up to hold the thing. Not as easy as you would think. ...as you can see from that Brazilian, failing spectacularly to get the up side up!
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Post by andystroud on Jul 22, 2014 12:10:07 GMT
We need a captain because we need someone to have the responsibility of carrying the pennant out for the pre-match pleasantries. Not to mention the enormous responsibility of choosing heads or tails. Only a specially skilled type of player can be entrusted with such a major responsibility. We have a team full of tossers already!
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Post by bicesteryellow on Jul 22, 2014 20:27:37 GMT
Need a bulldog of a player. Fat, ugly, massive head and drooling everywhere. With a proper English name and shouting and manly and deep voice and blood everywhere and anger and beer and black boots made out of leather in England. Apply within
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Post by baldy on Jul 23, 2014 7:33:51 GMT
Cannot believe some of the names being mentioned like Joe Hart ! He'll be lucky to make the bench in the coming years.
If I was Hodgson I would identify a captain from the cluster of new talent apparently emerging and give the job to one of the young up coming players and let him settle in to the job and grow as a player and captain at the same time. Break the bloody mould of giving it to ageing regulars. We must have a born leader out there who's under the age of 21. Why not be ground breaking and show the world we are thinking progressively ?
Forget Rooney, forget Hart. Who's the best up coming player we have ? I'd say give the job to John Stones or Luke Shaw. Both defenders who operate in good positions to see the game in front of them. Both will be regulars for the next ten to twelve years. Yes, it wont be particularly comfortable for them in the early days but give it a year and seven or eight games and they'd bed in and with the talent they have there's your captain for the next ten years.
If he could nail a place and position I also think Phil Jones would be captaincy material but he has to really find himself as a footballer and quickly. Got all the talent in the world but he's utilised in far too many roles by club and country.
Stones or Shaw. No others come close.
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Post by stevegilbert on Jul 23, 2014 7:50:23 GMT
Cannot believe some of the names being mentioned like Joe Hart ! He'll be lucky to make the bench in the coming years. If I was Hodgson I would identify a captain from the cluster of new talent apparently emerging and give the job to one of the young up coming players and let him settle in to the job and grow as a player and captain at the same time. Break the bloody mould of giving it to ageing regulars. We must have a born leader out there who's under the age of 21. Why not be ground breaking and show the world we are thinking progressively ? Forget Rooney, forget Hart. Who's the best up coming player we have ? I'd say give the job to John Stones or Luke Shaw. Both defenders who operate in good positions to see the game in front of them. Both will be regulars for the next ten to twelve years. Yes, it wont be particularly comfortable for them in the early days but give it a year and seven or eight games and they'd bed in and with the talent they have there's your captain for the next ten years. If he could nail a place and position I also think Phil Jones would be captaincy material but he has to really find himself as a footballer and quickly. Got all the talent in the world but he's utilised in far too many roles by club and country. Stones or Shaw. No others come close. Stones or Shaw?! Are you joking? If you want a young captain then their will be 3 players a head of them - Barkley, Wilshere and Henderson. All will be reaching their peak around the Euro's in France. We will of course have a more senior player as captain which I can see being Hart, Rooney or Cahill. The captain is there to help the youngsters fit in when they are new to the set up, deal with all the press and much more. England fans put enough pressure on the players as it is. The young lads don't need any more by being given the arm band.
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Post by Rugbyox on Jul 23, 2014 8:05:09 GMT
Cannot believe some of the names being mentioned like Joe Hart ! He'll be lucky to make the bench in the coming years. If I was Hodgson I would identify a captain from the cluster of new talent apparently emerging and give the job to one of the young up coming players and let him settle in to the job and grow as a player and captain at the same time. Break the bloody mould of giving it to ageing regulars. We must have a born leader out there who's under the age of 21. Why not be ground breaking and show the world we are thinking progressively ? Forget Rooney, forget Hart. Who's the best up coming player we have ? I'd say give the job to John Stones or Luke Shaw. Both defenders who operate in good positions to see the game in front of them. Both will be regulars for the next ten to twelve years. Yes, it wont be particularly comfortable for them in the early days but give it a year and seven or eight games and they'd bed in and with the talent they have there's your captain for the next ten years. If he could nail a place and position I also think Phil Jones would be captaincy material but he has to really find himself as a footballer and quickly. Got all the talent in the world but he's utilised in far too many roles by club and country. Stones or Shaw. No others come close. I understand where your coming from, but i dont think that would be the best option... I agree that it shouldnt go straight to the person that served the longest or is the oldest, thats not always the best option, its about some that can lead, and i dont think the youngsters could do that. we should be looking to someone between the 25-29 stage so they have plenty of time left playing in the squad, and someone that can lead from the front.. Giving it straight to a young person and hoping that they can be captain for 10-12 sounds good but when has it ever worked?? it would be too much pressure too soon and you would see a decline in that persons ability.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jul 23, 2014 8:05:58 GMT
The young player route won't happen because the FA are far too conservative in everything they do. The young captain route can work, in cricket for example South Africa promoted Graeme Smith to captain after he had only played 8 tests, and he was still 22. He led them on their most successful period in years. It can work. Having said that, the baggage that comes with being England captain, I believe, would be too much for any young player trying to establish themselves as an international footballer.
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Post by Boogaloo on Jul 23, 2014 8:45:26 GMT
Cannot believe some of the names being mentioned like Joe Hart ! He'll be lucky to make the bench in the coming years. If I was Hodgson I would identify a captain from the cluster of new talent apparently emerging and give the job to one of the young up coming players and let him settle in to the job and grow as a player and captain at the same time. Break the bloody mould of giving it to ageing regulars. We must have a born leader out there who's under the age of 21. Why not be ground breaking and show the world we are thinking progressively ? Forget Rooney, forget Hart. Who's the best up coming player we have ? I'd say give the job to John Stones or Luke Shaw. Both defenders who operate in good positions to see the game in front of them. Both will be regulars for the next ten to twelve years. Yes, it wont be particularly comfortable for them in the early days but give it a year and seven or eight games and they'd bed in and with the talent they have there's your captain for the next ten years. If he could nail a place and position I also think Phil Jones would be captaincy material but he has to really find himself as a footballer and quickly. Got all the talent in the world but he's utilised in far too many roles by club and country. Stones or Shaw. No others come close. Luke Shaw? Forget it. That would involve either dropping the far superior Leighton Baines, or playing one of these two out of position - both of which are a complete non-starter. John Stones has only played about 30 mins of football for the National side. Whilst they could both be considered for the England captaincy in the future, it is far too early to thrust these players into the limelight. Hart seems the logical choice to me. Although his form has dipped a bit, I don't see anybody challenging for his position any time soon. Foster and Forster simply aren't in the same league as him. Rooney - I really cannot see what the obsession is with him - he should have been dropped by Hodgson in the World Cup. 1 goal in 3 World Cup tournaments is very poor indeed.
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Post by baldy on Jul 23, 2014 10:58:15 GMT
What needs to happen is to remove the pressure of being captain. In football, unlike cricket, you aren't making tactical decisions as a captain. I don't really get why it's that important. A captain cannot really change the course of a game in football. He can gee up and cajole but most top level footballers will have that pride mechanism in the first place. How old was Bobby Moore when he got the gig ? 21 or 22 ? Nothing in football at all has changed in terms of being a captain. No different now to 1966 in that respect. I think Billy Bremner was very young too when he got it at Leeds.
How the f*ck can you give it to Hart when he suffers dips in form as often as he does ? Only an absolute idiot would give him the captaincy. You can't give it to someone who might not make the team ! That rules Hart out.
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Post by stevegilbert on Jul 23, 2014 11:12:46 GMT
What needs to happen is to remove the pressure of being captain. In football, unlike cricket, you aren't making tactical decisions as a captain. I don't really get why it's that important. A captain cannot really change the course of a game in football. He can gee up and cajole but most top level footballers will have that pride mechanism in the first place. How old was Bobby Moore when he got the gig ? 21 or 22 ? Nothing in football at all has changed in terms of being a captain. No different now to 1966 in that respect. I think Billy Bremner was very young too when he got it at Leeds. How the f*ck can you give it to Hart when he suffers dips in form as often as he does ? Only an absolute idiot would give him the captaincy. You can't give it to someone who might not make the team ! That rules Hart out. The difference from 1966 and now is the fans and media pressure. As for Hart he is still young and will get more consistent with age. He will be Englands number 1 for a good few years. I agree though I wouldn't make him captain, more saying that I think he will be inline to get it.
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Post by sihath on Jul 23, 2014 11:40:38 GMT
What needs to happen is to remove the pressure of being captain. In football, unlike cricket, you aren't making tactical decisions as a captain. I don't really get why it's that important. A captain cannot really change the course of a game in football. He can gee up and cajole but most top level footballers will have that pride mechanism in the first place. How old was Bobby Moore when he got the gig ? 21 or 22 ? Nothing in football at all has changed in terms of being a captain. No different now to 1966 in that respect. I think Billy Bremner was very young too when he got it at Leeds. How the f*ck can you give it to Hart when he suffers dips in form as often as he does ? Only an absolute idiot would give him the captaincy. You can't give it to someone who might not make the team ! That rules Hart out.Based on the last god knows how many years, and based on performances in an England shirt, that would rule out all of them.
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Post by Chris1986 on Jul 23, 2014 11:40:55 GMT
Obviously you need someone to act as captain in games but at international level you don't need to appoint someone as a permanent captain and elevate them to some stupid level where they are almost seen as more important than the manager. The armband should be allocated on a squad by squad basis up until the Euros. A captain should then be picked for the tournament and maybe if they prove them self keep picking that person until a better candidate emerges or they stop playing.
When you look at the England team at the stage it is in (with a mixture of young raw talent and experienced pro's who don't seem to replicate club form at international level) nobody should be guaranteed a game and certainly no-one there deserves to be elevated to a permanent position above the rest of the players.
Other countries manage it in different ways to us, Italy have had a policy of giving the arm band to the highest capped player in each squad. The only reason the England captaincy has been changed to the way it is now is because the FA wanted to exploit the commercial potential of Beckham when they made him captain. All it does is create a stick for the press to beat whenever the England captain does something wrong at domestic level or in his private life.
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Post by Boogaloo on Jul 23, 2014 12:31:50 GMT
What needs to happen is to remove the pressure of being captain. In football, unlike cricket, you aren't making tactical decisions as a captain. I don't really get why it's that important. A captain cannot really change the course of a game in football. He can gee up and cajole but most top level footballers will have that pride mechanism in the first place. How old was Bobby Moore when he got the gig ? 21 or 22 ? Nothing in football at all has changed in terms of being a captain. No different now to 1966 in that respect. I think Billy Bremner was very young too when he got it at Leeds. How the f*ck can you give it to Hart when he suffers dips in form as often as he does ? Only an absolute idiot would give him the captaincy. You can't give it to someone who might not make the team ! That rules Hart out. I think you're confusing England with Man City, and Pantilmon is Romanian so he won't pose any threat. Also, when was the last time Hart been dropped by England? BTW friendlies don't count, as they are used as opportunites to give players a go, who would not normally be picked.
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Post by aaronoxf on Jul 24, 2014 6:20:18 GMT
Barkley for me. Je looks like he'll be a leader of men if he is bred right. Reminds me so much of gazza
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Post by Junior on Jul 24, 2014 7:06:23 GMT
Cahill for me, think he's a very good CB. Certainly the best we've got. Will also be a regular for club and country for a while.
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Post by baldy on Jul 24, 2014 7:20:57 GMT
Cahill for me, think he's a very good CB. Certainly the best we've got. Will also be a regular for club and country for a while. Don't agree. Cahill was shocking against Uruguay and although Suarez is top quality he made Cahill look cumbersome. He's solid enough and while I agree he's best of a poor bunch at centre back, we have to hope that a proper footballer like Stones is fast tracked in to international football and be allowed to make the odd rick while he settles in. Truth is the best English centre back in the country was sat on his arse watching the WC.
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Post by Rugbyox on Jul 24, 2014 7:21:45 GMT
Cahill for me, think he's a very good CB. Certainly the best we've got. Will also be a regular for club and country for a while. Agree with that, he would be my choice from the players we have in the bracket that i think suit being captain.
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Post by Rugbyox on Jul 24, 2014 7:24:08 GMT
Cahill for me, think he's a very good CB. Certainly the best we've got. Will also be a regular for club and country for a while. Don't agree. Cahill was shocking against Uruguay and although Suarez is top quality he made Cahill look cumbersome. He's solid enough and while I agree he's best of a poor bunch at centre back, we have to hope that a proper footballer like Stones is fast tracked in to international football and be allowed to make the odd rick while he settles in. Truth is the best English centre back in the country was sat on his arse watching the WC. i think Jageilka (spelling?) was worse against Uruguay, getting himself into no mans land and letting suarez open the scoring
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jul 24, 2014 7:54:01 GMT
Joe Hart should be captain. Other than Wazza and Cahill, he's the only player who has the right experience. And Wazza is too flakey for England and I'm not sure if Cahill is a leader or not.
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Post by Rugbyox on Jul 24, 2014 8:50:06 GMT
The only problem i have with the keeper being the captain is he cant easily talk with the attacking players, or the ref if there is an incident at the other end of the pitch.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jul 24, 2014 12:47:42 GMT
I agree. In an ideal world a CB/CM would be a good candidate and it wouldn't be an issue. At the moment we don't have one.
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Post by amarillo on Jul 28, 2014 11:08:31 GMT
I'd say Hart is the best option.
I can't think of anyone else senior enough with the right attitude who is an obvious starter. Cahill is really the only other contender.
Rooney is too stroppy and sometimes looks like he doesn't want to be there. Thats the last thing you need as a captain.
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Post by Junior on Jul 28, 2014 11:47:03 GMT
Any examples of Rooney not looking like he wants to be there?
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jul 28, 2014 11:56:50 GMT
Any examples of Rooney not looking like he wants to be there? Not always at the races when he plays for England
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