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Post by alessandro on Jul 6, 2011 12:32:43 GMT
I think followong on from the behaviour of the police last season at various games, and certanily the stories that are now being received from all over the country on police brutality or infringement of rights (see the article below posted on another thread or the manslaughter of a man making his way home from selling newspapers at the bank protests) it would be good to have a thread on here to keep together all incidents this season. For one it has a very negative impact on the matchday experience and will detract fans coming back, but more importantly, as has been discussed, we are normal citizens like anyone else. It is important that we are armed with our rights and we are able to share information to ensure that we can protect those rights. In advance of Swindon away, a game at which I expect the Thames Valley Police and British Transport Police to most likely impinge upon our rights, I think a campaign of awareness is essential. They read these forums and it is only right that they know that we're watching them very closely now, and having perhaps been a bit wet behind the ears from some dark years in the conference, last year woke us up. Jobs and careers can be put on lines when they misbehave so they should face the same in return. Hopefully Oxvox can continue to inform fans via this thread of their rights. it will also be a helpful point from which Amanda Jacks (FSF) can place contact details, collect evidence, we can upload videos, and also the FSF can provide the guidance that they have. On the day of high profile matches like Swindon I think it is important that fans use modern media techniques so that we can hold officers to account. If they dont have their number showing, photo their faces and the fact they don't have their number showing. If they act beyond what you would consider proportionate, take their numbers and film the event. They have no rights to take your cameras from you. I think in summary it's best we are prepared because i'm damned if they're going to underperform when the trouble is obviously in front of them (see Port Vale), and then use it as an excuse to bully and intimidate law abiding fans, cause fans to miss parts of the game (see West Ham), prevent fans from travelling with freedom, etc. Note the two forces involved in the below incident... www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/03/football-fan-attacked
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Post by pugs on Jul 6, 2011 12:54:13 GMT
I have thought about some of these issues this week in relation to the upcoming Swindon game. I will, in all likelihood, be attending the game with a fellow Oxford fan who happens to reside near Swindon. We will head to the ground from his house in Haydon Wick with the obvious intention of returning to it after the match. I wonder how easy that will prove to be though. I can foresee fans being herded onto coaches and to the station whether they wish to go there or not.
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Post by a420outpost on Jul 6, 2011 13:18:59 GMT
As much as the supporters of both teams are looking forward to the match it is quite clear that there has been a lot of history off the pitch and that people are looking forward to the occasion for different reasons.
I think Ricky raises a good issue that I hadn't considered when reading some of the messages on here over the past few days and particularly when reading the article on the link - that some of the Police who will be looking forward to action off the pitch as well.
It was quite disturbing to read the linked article and the disgusting way that fan was treated. if I honestly asked myself could I see the Police doing something like this if there was trouble at the match?, the answer is very much a Yes.
I just hope on the day that the fans on both sides who are attending for the football only get to see the match in safety and that the more testosterone driven Police are kept in line by more professional colleagues.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jul 6, 2011 13:39:39 GMT
I think that people need to be careful of the nonsense that is posted on here reliving the 'good' old days and so forth. It's the sort well meaning reminiscing that TVP will use as evidence that they need to be heavy handed and so forth. Perhaps OxVox with the FSF could put a leaflet in the match programme explaining what our right are?
The normal fans need to be made aware of our rights and responsibilities. I'd hope that some of the bovver and aggro based nonsense doesn't bless this boards and is kept between those who want to do it. People must know who their counterparts are? Preferably they keep it away from the game so the normal folks that go don't get harrassed about something we are not interested in or want to participate in. But we are the ones that are punished and have our rights impinged.
I resent being treated like a piece of dog shit by Police because of the actions of a minority. It would be good if the Police were proactive (yeah I know) and had a liason officer with the club that can work with fans. It shouldn't be up to the FSF.
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Post by Long John Silver on Jul 6, 2011 13:43:46 GMT
I hope after reading that article that we have finally seen an end to the naive posts from those who say, if you do nothing wrong then the police won't bother you.
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Post by sarge on Jul 6, 2011 13:47:13 GMT
I think that people need to be careful of the nonsense that is posted on here reliving the 'good' old days and so forth. It's the sort well meaning reminiscing that TVP will use as evidence that they need to be heavy handed and so forth. Perhaps OxVox with the FSF could put a leaflet in the match programme explaining what our right are? The normal fans need to be made aware of our rights and responsibilities. I'd hope that some of the bovver and aggro based nonsense doesn't bless this boards and is kept between those who want to do it. People must know who their counterparts are? Preferably they keep it away from the game so the normal folks that go don't get harrassed about something we are not interested in or want to participate in. But we are the ones that are punished and have our rights impinged. I resent being treated like a piece of dog shit by Police because of the actions of a minority. It would be good if the Police were proactive (yeah I know) and had a liason officer with the club that can work with fans. It shouldn't be up to the FSF. the home fixture against northampton last season was TVP at thier bullyboy worst
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Post by Yellowbrains on Jul 6, 2011 13:59:13 GMT
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Post by ox4eva on Jul 6, 2011 14:08:28 GMT
The way the police use section 60 is something everyone needs to be very aware about.
They can only search you for weapons, it does not give them the right to take your names and address.
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Post by onlyoneunited on Jul 6, 2011 14:37:09 GMT
Good idea starting this, possibly worth stickying until after the Swindon game?
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Post by loveandpride on Jul 6, 2011 14:41:08 GMT
"bovver and aggro" Welcome to 1973
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Post by sarge on Jul 6, 2011 15:44:39 GMT
"bovver and aggro" Welcome to 1973 '69-'70 without getting too picky
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Post by surrey on Jul 6, 2011 16:46:13 GMT
This might be an incredibly naive suggestion, but would it be possible for a representative of the Oxford support - perhaps an OxVox member - to be present at the TVP briefing in advance of the game in August to put the genuine concerns of Oxford fans forward? (Yes, I know it's in Wiltshire but bet your bottom dollar it will be a joint exercise).
This will, of course, be a tough gig for that person, but issues like hiding numbers could be addressed and it might be interesting to get a TVP perspective. On the other hand, their attitude will probably be "do nothing wrong and you have nothing to worry about".
Just thinking aloud really ....
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Post by sarge on Jul 6, 2011 17:05:56 GMT
This might be an incredibly naive suggestion, but would it be possible for a representative of the Oxford support - perhaps an OxVox member - to be present at the TVP briefing in advance of the game in August to put the genuine concerns of Oxford fans forward? (Yes, I know it's in Wiltshire but bet your bottom dollar it will be a joint exercise). This will, of course, be a tough gig for that person, but issues like hiding numbers could be addressed and it might be interesting to get a TVP perspective. On the other hand, their attitude will probably be "do nothing wrong and you have nothing to worry about". Just thinking aloud really .... see LJS post above!
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Post by Colin B on Jul 6, 2011 18:17:27 GMT
This might be an incredibly naive suggestion, but would it be possible for a representative of the Oxford support - perhaps an OxVox member - to be present at the TVP briefing in advance of the game in August to put the genuine concerns of Oxford fans forward? (Yes, I know it's in Wiltshire but bet your bottom dollar it will be a joint exercise). This will, of course, be a tough gig for that person, but issues like hiding numbers could be addressed and it might be interesting to get a TVP perspective. On the other hand, their attitude will probably be "do nothing wrong and you have nothing to worry about". Just thinking aloud really .... Can I volunteer???!!!
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Post by scummerator on Jul 7, 2011 14:42:05 GMT
I think that people need to be careful of the nonsense that is posted on here reliving the 'good' old days and so forth. It's the sort well meaning reminiscing that TVP will use as evidence that they need to be heavy handed and so forth. Perhaps OxVox with the FSF could put a leaflet in the match programme explaining what our right are? The normal fans need to be made aware of our rights and responsibilities. I'd hope that some of the bovver and aggro based nonsense doesn't bless this boards and is kept between those who want to do it. People must know who their counterparts are? Preferably they keep it away from the game so the normal folks that go don't get harrassed about something we are not interested in or want to participate in. But we are the ones that are punished and have our rights impinged. I resent being treated like a piece of dog shit by Police because of the actions of a minority. It would be good if the Police were proactive (yeah I know) and had a liason officer with the club that can work with fans. It shouldn't be up to the FSF. A word of advice If you're going to grab a snake, be sure to grab the head. If you only grab its arse, you'll get bitten!
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Post by saintgeorge on Jul 8, 2011 8:52:33 GMT
I think this thread will be busy after the 21st.
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Post by grandpont on Jul 8, 2011 14:39:20 GMT
Can we take flowers and tie them to the end of the police officers' nightsticks?
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Post by londonroader on Jul 8, 2011 18:18:29 GMT
Can we take flowers and tie them to the end of the police officers' nightsticks? Why not yellow ribbons?
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jul 8, 2011 22:05:10 GMT
A word of advice If you're going to grab a snake, be sure to grab the head. If you only grab its arse, you'll get bitten! A word of advice to whom?
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Post by fantasticmrox on Jul 26, 2011 11:17:19 GMT
Good Thread Ricky. I hope that it isn't very busy in the days after Aug 21st for the sake of fellow fans.
That article is a great example of how basic civil liberites do not seem to apply to you if you happen to want to watch football.
I've experience a bit of crap at the hands of the police myself over the years, all of which was over the top and some of which was probably illegal. Nothing on the scale of that poor palace fan in the article, nor probably anything like the roughing up people actually involved with trouble would have had over the years - but I've never once been involved with causing or reacting to any trouble, so I know in my own mind I've been treated unfairly by The Fuzz for merely being a football fan.
Here's one story from the distant past - if this happened to me now I'd get the officer's number and put a complaint in. At the time, I just accepted it.
At Swindon Away October 2000: During a police escort of c.200 Oxford fans back to the train station, someone shouted something at us from a window, to which the guy walking next to me shouted the same obscenity back. The nearest Police Officer grabbed him round the throat, shook him by his neck and threatened him with arrest, which I took a picture of on a disposable camera. The policeman then turned his attentions to me and tried to grab the camera out of my hands to confiscate it. He was literally pulling it out of my hands. I was adamant he had no right to take it and I kept hold and put it back in my pocket. I didn't swear, I didn't insult him - I just said it was a free country and I could take pictures of police brutality if I saw it. So he headbutted me with his helmet, spat at me whilst shouting with his face right up against mine and told me to go to the back of the escort or he'd arrest me. I didn't think protesting would get me anywhere but into the back of a meatwagon, so I just complied.
Had I been hot-headed about that and told him to p*ss off or pushed him away when he headbutted me - I'd have been in a police cell and charged with assaulting a police officer. It wouldn't take much for an innocent chap to be goaded into trouble when the police act in this manner!
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Post by Mark on Jul 26, 2011 11:24:39 GMT
Don't throw chewing gum, or get a three year ban like the 48 year old Luton fan. Incidentally, Met Police are now instructed that being sworn at is not an offence... The advice states: "The courts do not accept police officers are caused harassment, alarm or distress by words such as: f---, c---, b-----ks, w-----s." I bet that doesn't count at or around a football match though.
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Post by scummerator on Jul 26, 2011 18:08:30 GMT
A word of advice If you're going to grab a snake, be sure to grab the head. If you only grab its arse, you'll get bitten! A word of advice to whom? People like you old son, that's why I replied to your comment. Harping on about 'my rights' being impinged all the time. Coppers treat all footie fans with the same shite attitude, it's got f*ck all to do with how people behave on the day. Most of the OB will be itching to have a go as much as the so called minority you're on about, fat lot of good it'll do you loving up to them my old cocker ha ha ha Get up to date mate, everyone has their own agenda.....it's their right!
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Post by alessandro on Aug 14, 2011 14:23:22 GMT
bump
Make sure you know your rights, get their numbers and take lots of video footage / photos
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Post by John Lennon on Aug 14, 2011 14:34:03 GMT
Expect zero tolerance. But don't accept them crossing the line.
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Post by saintgeorge on Aug 15, 2011 8:07:38 GMT
As soon as the police start treating us like sh!t (which will be all day) everyone get your phones out & film everything. 500 fans filming them might make them ease off abit.
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Post by tedbundy on Aug 15, 2011 17:32:01 GMT
I reckon the enviroment has changed over last week or so after the riots...press are putting OB on a level with troops in Afghan so if anyone gets arrested sunday they are going to be tried and condemned before it gets to court....no point in loving up to OB just try to avoid them as much as poss I reckon
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Post by alessandro on Aug 15, 2011 17:51:46 GMT
I reckon the enviroment has changed over last week or so after the riots...press are putting OB on a level with troops in Afghan so if anyone gets arrested sunday they are going to be tried and condemned before it gets to court....no point in loving up to OB just try to avoid them as much as poss I reckon Agreed. thats my biggest concern. Their failure to deal with criminality will transfer to a new 'empowerment' where they treat crowd control as 'criminality' and alot of people get very badly treated. I hope not but we need to look out for each other as they have history.
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Post by scummerator on Aug 16, 2011 10:38:25 GMT
As soon as the police start treating us like sh!t (which will be all day) everyone get your phones out & film everything. 500 fans filming them might make them ease off abit. Trouble is, filming and photographing Police can be in some circumstances a criminal offence in itself,or attract plod like flies to a ripe turd. Perverting the course of justice and obstructing a police officer are two likely courses you could find yourself going down, f*ck that for a game of soldiers. The latter's maybe a big fine, but if you want to run the gauntlet with the other, be my guest mate. Anyone who was at Burnley will know what I'm on about. If challenged by OB and you need to speak to them do it politely, if not say f*ck all to them at all. Their little brains aren't programmed for polite footie fans, f*cks them right up! If you're told to walk on the pavement by OB, just do it, give the f*ckers no excuse to make it up as they go. Spouting off about 'my rights' normally puts them into 'nick the bas*ard' mode and gets you banged up or beaten up or both, and loads of unwanted attention for everyone else nearby. Do what the f*ck you want after the game, lets get there, get in and by the will of god, get the right result. Here endeth the lesson.
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Post by fantasticmrox on Aug 16, 2011 10:57:55 GMT
As soon as the police start treating us like sh!t (which will be all day) everyone get your phones out & film everything. 500 fans filming them might make them ease off abit. Trouble is, filming and photographing Police can be in some circumstances a criminal offence in itself,or attract plod like flies to a ripe turd. I'm surprised to hear this - are you sure? I'm prepared to have had my facts and beliefs wrong, but I'm pretty sure that filming the police is not a criminal offence in any circumstance (unless you are breaking into their homes and filming them nobbing their missus or something, obviously).
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Post by stfcforever on Aug 16, 2011 11:04:22 GMT
Trouble is, filming and photographing Police can be in some circumstances a criminal offence in itself,or attract plod like flies to a ripe turd. I'm surprised to hear this - are you sure? I'm prepared to have had my facts and beliefs wrong, but I'm pretty sure that filming the police is not a criminal offence in any circumstance (unless you are breaking into their homes and filming them nobbing their missus or something, obviously). Comes under Section 76 of the Counter-Terrorism Act 2008,
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